An encounter with an Amway / WWDB recruiter

amway-logoThe other day, I was in Starbucks, working on my laptop, until I said hello to the lady that just came in and sat next to my table and started chatting.

What follows is my story and experience from meeting with an Amway/World Wide Dream builders recruiter.

I will make efforts to be as objective as I can and share with you the short journey that unfolded thereafter.

First encounter

I met Jen (not her real name), one day at Starbucks. She was friendly and smiling back at me. We started chatting about general things until I asked her: “What do you do?”.

This is when she told me that she helps people become independent and business owners (IBOs). I was intrigued, but she said that it will take time to properly explain to me what she does and that she had to go now because she has an appointment.

We set up another date to meet and continue the discussion.

Second encounter

I was excited and looking forward to this meeting. Jen promised that she will explain to me how she can teach/empower people to become business owners.

I arrived to Starbucks a bit earlier, and then she arrived right on time.

She started telling about her story and how her dad manage to provide all the family needs, including educating her and her sisters in private schools, with this business.

I was becoming excited about what this business or teaching could be?

The more she told me, the less I knew what she is referring to. She always referred to the process as “business”.

Before she left, she gave me the book: “The Business of the 21st Century” by Robert T. Kiyosaki and told me when you finish reading it we will meet again.

The book looked like an easy read (around 100 pages) so I told her to meet again a couple of days later.

I was frustrated because I thought she would answer my questions but instead she brought more questions and gave me a homework to do. But on the other hand, I was looking forward to reading this book about “business” in the hopes of getting my questions answered in the third encounter hopefully.

I went back home, very excited and started reading the book. The more I read in that book, the more excited and curios I became.

Even the book was mysterious and not saying what’s this “business” is all about. It spoke of no tangible business, line of business or a tangible method about conducting business…

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It spoke and taught about the benefits of being an independent business owner (IBO) but it did not disclose how to take that step. I also learned about the cash-flow quadrants . Overall, I did not like the book because it was still vague and sounded purely as a sales pitch.

Third encounter

I met her again to give her the book and in the hope that she finally tells me what I am going to get myself involved with.

I was still hyped from reading the book and wanted to learn from her what is this “business” that Robert K. keeps on talking about in his book.

She asked me if the book made sense to me. I told her it made sense but:

…I could not get anything tangible out of it. Robert K. keeps on telling nice stories that motivate you but it was never clear in the book how to achieve that kind of success.

Jen did not comment on what I had said. She produced a pen and a pad then started explaining to me about our buying habits and how if we buy from ourselves (our own business) we can make money. She told me a bit about Amway and that we buy and consume their products and get paid by them.

She did not elaborate more on what exactly I am supposed to be doing, but she said that I should come to a meeting at her condo:

My dad will be making a small presentation and you will understand more about the business

Fourth Encounter

This time I drove around 33 miles roundtrip during traffic jam hours to attend the meeting at her place.

I went there with work cloth (casual T-shirt and jeans) but when I went inside I felt underdressed. Two men dressed in suits and other couples well dressed as well. I took a chair and sat while waiting like everybody else for the dad (who will be the main presenter) to arrive.

Ten minutes later, Jen’s mom and dad enter the living room. The dad (who shall be named Mike), was also wearing a suit, assumed his presenter pose and started his presentation. The two other guys in suits, pulled their voice recorder and started recording the presentation (apparently, as I learned later, so they can become presenters (of the business plan) as well).

He told his story about how he disliked his numerous jobs and could not wait to quit and become independent.

Mike also told us that because of this business he now enjoys his freedom and the time with his kids and wife. He shared with us many stories and lifestyle examples he is able to afford because of this business.

  • I gave my wife her freedom and she does not have to work anymore
  • If I want to, I can go play Golf the whole day and not worry about going to the office
  • etc…

…all this is nice talk, full of hope and encouragement. I was excited even more to learn the secret for his success.

Some of the points that Mike covered:

  • A successful business is the one that follows a system
  • A successful business system should be duplicated
    • Franchises are examples of a system that can be duplicated. Starbucks, MacDonald’s and its “The Hamburger University” are among the examples mentioned.
  • Inflation and the economy
  • A desk job is for those who are not ambitious
  • Working for another company is stupid and will never set you free

During his presentation, Mike was drinking an energy drink, holding it in front of us many times and saying: “See, I buy from my own company and I love this product”.

I thought to myself, instead of flashing this energy drink (which he was clearly promoting), and sipping from it in front of us, have the least courtesy and offer us a sample or pretend to offer then say: “sorry, I don’t have samples with me”.

At the end of the meeting, we received introduction packets with some numbers and charts. The packet should contain some information to get us started in the business. I learned that there is a monthly fee and a minimum amount I have to purchase from my own business or sell to friends. I also received a CD to play in my car.

The dad then asked me if I want to learn more about the business. I said yes and we set up a meeting at another Starbucks.

Those folks seem to know all Starbucks in Washington state! (see my other blog post: 7 tips to help you spot Amway / WWDB recruiters in coffee shops)

I put the CD and started listening to it while driving back home. It was 20 minutes long. An older lady was sharing her experience with Amway and how much she sold, the hardship she went through and then how much money she started making after 5 hard working years.

I don’t need a CD full of hope, I want a CD full of “How to”…anyway, I kept my patience and said to myself that I will meet with Mike soon and he will (finally?) tell me what it is about.

Fifth Encounter

This time, Mike and I met again in Starbucks. I arrived with the least excitement this time because I was getting distrustful and disillusioned. I already wasted so much time and nothing was revealed so far.

Again, he started talking in general and not giving direct examples. Jen joined us later on.

I pressed Mike, saying: “Hey Mike, I spent so much time on various meetings and you did not tell me what this thing is really about. I cannot subscribe to something I don’t know about“. He then said: “Okay, let me go grab something from my car”.

He came back with this sheet containing the price and fees to start and operate an Amway business.

As it turns out, I need at least $112 per month to operate this business, followed by many optional but most advised things (motivational tapes) to buy and attend (major functions).


I told him I will think about it and contact him back.

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I have to say that I did not like the way they wasted my time because I was sincerely curious and wanted to see what the business is about and how to become an IBO (independent business owner). Any honest business starts with honesty and not with luring, playing on emotions or giving false hopes.

I went back home and started doing my research about Amway and WWDB’s business practices and how they operate.

From my research about Amway, WWDB and other affiliated companies, this “business” does not feel like something I want to be doing. I would rather continue writing books instead.

Here are some sites and other resources talking about what Amway is really about:

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103 thoughts on “An encounter with an Amway / WWDB recruiter

  1. I really appreciate this article. My son was targeted by an Amway recruiter not too long ago. This man had gotten himself into a job fair that helps soldiers find employment when they leave the service. He was able to get my son to meet with him several times telling him only that he was a very successful IBO and was looking for new talented people to mentor. He came home very excited to tell us all about it, but the family was very suspicious of it. His father hit it on the head and suspected an Amway recruiter right away. I on the other hand had not had experience with that sort of thing so I had no idea. Later I did a search and sure enough this man’s picture turned up on an Amway site. I was infuriated so much so I emailed this person and upset my son. I’m sure many people make it in Amway for a little supplemental income, but there is no doubt that the people on the top make their money by selling the training supplies and I’m fully aware of how difficult it is to sell their products. I was deeply offended that he was able to make his way onto the base to target these young and impressionable people who have so much to offer the world and have sacrificed so much. I’m sure he wasn’t a bad man and I should have trusted my son’s judgement in allowing him to figure out on his own whether or not it was a business for him or not, but I do have one question! If Amway is such a good business to get involved with, why do they make such an effort to conceal it when they are trying to recruit people. It just all seems so shady! There is a website you can go to for Amway to get started, so if they are so great why do they have to be so shady or secretive?

    • Hi MBlake,

      I appreciate your comments.

      Amway recruiters do not seem to be honest or straightforward based on my experience. Starbucks coffeeshops are infested by such individuals.

      I once met a 19 years old lady that seemed “smart” and “friendly” only shortly to realize she’s a recruiter. She never admitted it, but she got angry when I spoke the truth about Amway. Her upline (or sponsor) must have told her to stop talking to me (because I am a dream killer).

      They are secretive because if they were straightforward then I doubt someone will even listen to them. Their basic tactic is: bait and switch. They want to build the victim’s hope so high that he/she looses their senses and get excited by those greedy / unrealistic dreams.

      It is like a cult. They isolate you from friends or family, citing that they are negative influence. A common joke about those Amway people is that they join the NFL club (No Friends Left).

      Sad state of affairs, they are what they are. Spread the word. I wrote this article here to help identify those people:

      Let me know if you have other questions.

      • They are forced to use the bait and switch method. If they are straightforward, no one would sit down with them to see the Amway plan. They use manipulation and deception to waste people’s time.

      • Emily, true. As I wrote in my experience, only after the fifth encounter they told me what it is all about and I decided not to continue. Had they told me earlier…you know, you said it yourself.

      • I think my friend is getting duped by a recruiter now. She is very, very convincing and sides with our hesitancy, since she too experienced it initially. She asked us 5 questions to vet us out and then gave us Robert Kiyosaki’s book “The business of the 21st Century”. She saids we need to have the right mindset before meeting her mentor who is some altruistic millionaire. It reeks of stench to me.

      • Thank you for posting this article. I have an important question/statement.

        So, right now I am in the middle of talks with launching with WWDB at Amway. I’m coming to almost all of the board plans and listening to a lot of audios. My recruiters are a couple that are really nice. They seem like genuinely good people. They worked a budget with us when they didn’t really have to and are so positive and uplifting. Here’s my problem. I’ve been in talks with them for months, just trying to get my finances in order as we are in debt and now it almost feels like they are tired of waiting for me to launch and uplines are calling me and basically bullying me into launching by a certain time. I just had a child and things are busy on my end. Do they understand? No. They just give me the guilt trip of “if you really want this you will figure it out” and to a degree I agree with that. But I’m not looking forward to buying into this thing and going backwards in my finances.

        I feel like my wife and I are doing the right thing right now. We have been paying off some credit cards, knocking out some debt, and doing it without Amway/WWDB. My huge dilemma is now I feel like I’m in between a rock and a hard place with these people because they’ve spent all this time working with us and have been very helpful but I don’t think this business is a very good fit for us at this point in time. If I had a bunch of money to just play around with and it didn’t seem like I was selling my soul then it would be a no-brained to launch. Any advice would be appreciated. Thank you for reading this.

      • Jason, don’t feel guilty. Just quit it and focus on your family and finances. Getting another job will be better in the short term. In the long term avoid Amway at all cost. This is my opinion.

    • Amway and worldwide are two different things, they keep it vague because they want to see where someone is, its a two way street and just how you didn’t want your son to waste his time they don’t want to either. i have yet to work or meet a potential employer that just drops all of the details of a position both the good and the bad in the first meeting. Your son sounds like he is smart enough to make his own choices you should have maybe given him the chance to see if it was something he wanted to do. If you are basing your assumption on something off of what everyone else says then you would hate everything ever made and then some. Even if it was something your son didn’t want to do it would have possibly been better for you to give him the option of declining instead of getting in the way because now if that was a once in a life opportunity for your son to have a better quality of life then he will never know. We get so used to the idea of sending our kids to school for years and working for someone for more hours in the day than we are home but we never stop to consider there might be something better, I’m not saying away is that vehicle but I’m saying does it really hurt to explore every option for a better life?

      • what he is saying is absolutely true i’m and Ibo myself and if they bombarded you with everything at once you for sure wouldn’t want to be apart of it. Another reason they wait to tell everything is they want to know if your willing to put in the effort it takes to achieve great success.

    • that’s because anyone can sell Amway but most people don’t have the foundation and tools WWDB provide. The reason he didn’t understand is because he only took what he wanted to take from it and they aren’t luring you into anything. If you don’t have the right mindset they don’t want you in the business you have to be a go giver, leader, and someone who is willing to create great leaders and mentors. Its no scam i’m an Ibo myself they just have something so great to give you have to really want it to get it. Their focus is personal growth becoming a better leader, father, husband and friend everyday. What we have to offer isn’t for everyone.

      • and one more thing Mblake mentorship and the opportunity is earned your not entitled which most people think which is a big problem in society you think everything should be explained and given right then and it shouldn’t you have to earn mentorship, financial freedom and success.

      • I’ve never met a single successful MLM person who didn’t sell their soul to the scheme, becoming a wriggling mannequin of sorts. And even then, the to-be successes I have seen falter. I’ve met and observed many throughout my years–hundreds, perhaps–and to my knowledge not one of them has made it rich (though a few I know have found a liveable income whilst still putting in an unplesant amout of hours by my standard). I do know, however, many hundreds of people that have become quite wealthy–if not rich–by becoming engineers, physicians, registered nurses, pilots and military officers who saved and invested their earnings wisely and lived within their means. One nurse I know worked hard for about 15 years, buying several houses and duplexes along the way and is now retired in his early 40s with a handsome real estate income. A former mechanical engineer I know is now a millionaire after starting a successful clam and oyster business. And a good friend of mine–a graphic designer–started his own business and does quite well designing showcase booths for large events like the Consumer Electronic Show. (To be fair, I’ve also met many high-earners who also always seem broke).

        The idea of life-long residual income from such delvings in MLM-related matters is far-fetched for the vast majority of participants; simple economics prohibits the ascent of perhaps 95% of MLM members in the same way that 99.999% of businessess don’t become the next Microsoft or The difference being that real business income is yours to keep or reinvest, sans any debt and taxes owed. To be clear, the cashflow in MLM schemes very aggressively funnels upward to the already-established 5%-ers and even more so to the 1%-ers and are not as subject to broader market fluctuations–it’s a microeconomic silo bordering on predatory activities. That being said (and I’ve said it elsewhere in this forum), you’re far more likely to find success by learning a valuable skill and working hard, buying tangible assets such as real estate and/or providing valuable products and services with a real demand over time.

  2. It would seem youve evaluated the opportunity with a lens you have been taught to think with, and that is the specifics are what matters, not so much the results, which have proven to be successful in a significantly shorter time (4-5 years) than the same result achieved by 40-50 year plan in which the results arent as nearly succesful. I imagine you could find some of this proof in the link ‘The truth about Amway’. The logistics behind network marketing model as outlined behind a success guru like Robert Kiyosak is not that hard to understand, and to most who are looking to find better results than what their pursuing in employment, are more likely to follow proven advice than those founded by opinion of someone who hasnt earned their partnership offer.
    If someone told you they retired before they were 30 and have success in all areas of their life, and they werent involved in unethical or immoral practices (which is unlikely considering you probably wouldnt associate with people like that), and were willing to show you, over a period of time, how to attain that, would it really matter what exactly it was? Would you have to love it, at first? If it were something you’d have to do 40-50 years than yeah thats probably smart. Or you could simply do, as the book might indicate, to allow yourself to be coached and developed by that person and the organization around them. I dont think such an opportunity is selfish, in fact quite the opposite. Successful people typically dont write blogs, they’re too busy building their dream, thats why theres typically more negative anti-blogs according to their experience, you can find that of any subject on the wide world web.
    In essence, this blog is not factual, merely opinionated, and if you are evaluating this opportunity, great, but I wouldnt encourage you to evaluate based on opinion.

    • “”significantly shorter time (4-5 years) than the same result achieved by 40-50 year plan in which the results arent as nearly successful””

      How long have you been with them and how close are you do be independent?

      Who said that one has to work 40 to 50 years? If you are smart about it, like most tech engineers, they can retire in their early forties if they invested their money right.

      I don’t believe in easy success or doing things that don’t get along with my passions. So I have to love what I am doing. To me the end goal is not money, is the fulfillment of my life journey and my gifts I share in life.
      You seem, like most Amway people, motivated by money and nothing else.

      My blog is a hobby, I have many other successful endeavor I am pursuing rather trying to please my upline and try to recruit more people.

      This blog post is my story / experience and not an opinion. This is a fact, that’s what happened with me.

      There’s a nice book I would like you and my blog readers read: Amway: The Cult of Free Enterprise => .

      Eagle, come back in 5 years and tell me about your success with Amway…or tell me you awakened from their grip.

      • “I will make efforts to be as objective as I can” lured me into reading your article that was clearly at the end far from objective. Guess everyone knows how to use the bait and switch!

      • Seriously? It feels you did not like this blog post.

        Let me count how many times they dragged me before telling me what this “business” is all about: 1, 2, 3, 4, 5. Yes FIVE times, now that’s bait and switch.

        Good for you I did not write a 5 series blog post 😉

    • Your response, Eagle, comes across quite fierce and oppositional in a way that would not be expected for such a mundane topic. A reasonable person of success (or one clearly heading that direction) would have no motive to counter with such bite unless, of course, he or she deep down has grave insecurities about their endeavor. In fact, only those with the most fantastical of wishes seem to defend something so indefensible and against general sense. Certinly a wealthy and or intuitive entrepreneur would not jump to the defense for his or her products and or business tactics in the way you (and other Amway folk) do; he or she would merely allow the products and results speak for themselves. Besides, if your success and happiness depend on a precondition of how well you do in some MLM enterprise, you will indeed never find it. But as for now, it’s clear to most everyone on here reading your comment that you’re ardently defending Amway out of an unconscious anxiety that this is all a farce and that you’re being “played.” Now you just need to realize it. Trust me, you’ll be better for it.

      • If you are percieving my comment as defense with ‘bite’, then that is a valid observation, and your entitled to pointing out how you see it. I felt I was simply pointing out that, which the author has done in other comments, that this blog is an opinion. Hey I’m just giving an opinion myself, and you seem to have taken it as argument. I have no desire to argue, as youve said, the product should be able to sell itself, in which case I re-affirm my claim to evaluate the opportunity based on the people whom are talking to you directly, instead of a bunch of text written by someone you dont know. The decision makes no difference to me, personally, if you take your influence from the internet I wouldnt want to sponsor you either. Your success is completely within your hands, and you’d need to prove you are capable of pursuing your dream of owning your life and living a life of signifance if you were to earn an offer from one such as myself who is not content with mediocrity. As for the author, I wish you prosperity and success in whatever you endeavor to do. 🙂

      • I admire passive responses like this. I need to learn this way of speaking. Instead of saying “go to hell” this sounds so much better, more intelligent and hopefully the recipient receives it better.

  3. If it was easy, everyone would do it. Think about that for a second.
    Amway is a $12billion company with no shares or debt. This system works, this business works -ONLY if you are willing to hard. Many people choose to give up because they are not willing to work hard enough, especially go out of heir comfort zone.
    WWDB is for individuals who are self-motivated, who want more in life and would rather work for 2-5yrs to achieve financial freedom, rather than working 40-50years and wait until 65 for retirement.
    If retiring at 60-65yrs old, which is changing to 65-70yrs old now in Canada, if that’s your vision for an ideal life, then that’s great but do your research before you have biased opinions about a company that has been successful, debt-free and been around for more than 50 years.
    So, who made this company successful? The 2%-ers that decided to continue on and not give up. The individuals who decided they would rather go out of their comfort zone and do something that can help them become financial free and help others do the same.
    Like I said, if it was easy everyone would do it,we would all millionaires by now.
    The process to recruit individuals for Wwdb/Amway is not based on lies or secrets. If you went up to Steve Jobs when he was alive, and asked him to tell you his secret about how he became so successful, you think he will just reveal all of his business plans to you? No. BUT All successful people say ONE THING – “I had a dream”. believe in your dreams, and work hard for them” -why do they say that? Because they REALLY DID believe in their dreams and they worked their asses off to be successful,they went out of their comfort zones and built their team.
    See the similarities? The recruiting process with WWDB/Amway shows you how to dream, gives you hope and possibly ignites a fire within you that motivates you to be successful, if that doesn’t do it for you then this business is not for you. And you will know it before you spend any money. But WWDB looks for people who have that burning desire. Because once you have that desire, that dream – you will be willing to work hard and do anything to achieve that. That’s why we have 98%-ers vs 2%-ers. People nowadays are so focused on the “what” and “how-to” that they have forgotten to ask themselves the “why”. Once you know your why – working hard, working outside of your comfort zone – it all makes sense.
    And I don’t know about you all, but I would rather follow the steps of a young entrepreneur who retired at the age of 28 and be mentored by them, rather than listening to 58 year old who is still working hard and trading their time for money. I’m sorry, but I’d rather listen to the 28year old.

    As far as the author of this blog goes, I appreciate you keeping it positive and accepting that this business is not for you. However, as I mentioned earlier, the process of recruiting in this business is not based on dishonesty and secretive.
    It’s a process where they want you to be excited to learn more, because I can guarantee you, during that excitement you were truly happy (little skeptical -human nature) to know that there is a possibility out there to fulfil your dreams.
    Not once will they ask you to spend any money, or try selling their products during the whole process. And usually meetings do have many samples, surprised that they did not, especially snacks for guests. You might look at it as having your time wasted with the 5-6sessions you had but we look at it as you invested your time in something that you thought had potential but now you know it’s not for you. It’s like going through training and realizing you don’t like it, so at least you know you don’t like it and it’s something you might never try again.

    As for others, this business is not for everyone, trust me it really isn’t. And I’m not here to preach about WWDB/Amway but basically commenting to get you all thinking and do actual research which involves real successful entrepreneurs, journals and books – not online forums/blogs/opinions.

    I wish everyone here all the success in all areas of your lives

    • Ishrat, I don’t have much to add. Check my reply to Eagle. You guys argue the same way. Typical of Amway people and the same programming they receive.

      Amway is for the 2% as you said because a Multi Level Marketing scheme cannot accommodate 100% otherwise your uplines won’t be paid and the system will fail. You need to keep recruiting new people so you get paid.

      Again, I am curious about you and your financial independence with Amway. How much time have you been with them and how much money you lost so far?

      I would argue that you can get yourself proper education in a field that is in demand (computer science for example) and make yourself 100k+ a year doing a creative job that you like.

      • How many IBOs did you meet/encounter before you made this assumption about us being motivated by just money? (Re. your reply to Eagle). I know you said “most”, which could be true, or not, but how many IBOs did you actually encounter and talk with and find out their values and ask them why they do what they do?

        I would appreciate a proper discussion instead of having you mock and judge me as a “typical amway person” and assume my education background and the money I “lost” in this business. All based on assumptions from my reply? I can argue you asking me about how much money I’ve lost and my status of financial independence with Amway, makes me wonder if money is the motivating factor for you? But I don’t like to think that way because I don’t blame you, you weren’t approached the right way with this business.

        You asked how much I’ve “lost” so far and my financial independence status- We’ve been with Amway for 7 months now and we are making a profit around $400/month, after all the monthly business costs. But yes, you got me, we don’t have the financial independence.. yet. We’ve only been in business for 7 months and a business takes 2-5 years to build, with gains and losses. I’m sure you knew that. Also, I had to pay out of my pocket in the beginning when I started the business, but which business doesn’t have start up costs and monthly costs? I’m sure you knew that as well. I won’t lie, I worked really hard for the extra $400/month, most importantly, I built habits – success habits. Extra $400/month might mean nothing to you though, which is okay. I see it as profit and success so far. And I still managed to keep my friends and family close. I know my priorities because I’m my own boss. I didn’t sign my life away to my amway, wwdb or my upline and blindly follow everything they say.
        Everything I learned from wwdb resources and training, I applied it to my work as well. Now, I get an increased salary and extra $4500+ residual from Amway, by the end of this year. Also, get tax returns from business costs next year. So yes, I have seen success in my personal and business life, we invested our time and dedicated ourselves to learn what this business had to offer. And, my education background is in healthcare informatics, just like IT, healthcare is always in demand, and I absolutely cannot complain about my salary. My husband and I are pretty well settled in our mid 20s. My husband can retire at 42 for his service. So money is not the issue here. Just like you, we have values too. I grew up seeing poverty all around me until I was 11. Helping people is huge for me. With the time commitment I have with my job, I’m unable to do what I really want to do – humanitarian travel – that’s my goal for my early-mid 30s. Don’t get me wrong, I love my job, Amway can’t tell me to hate my job. But my job won’t wait for me, and they sure as hell won’t pay me while I’m gone 3-4 months to help a village out in another country. All I’m trying to do is replace my income with residual income so I can commit my time to humanitarian activities, enough residual to give back and experience life, people, history, cultures and help communities and villages around the world.
        And it sure is a BIG dream. It scares me to dream this big, but it keeps me going at work and most importantly, in this business. And yes, I have been successful in it so far and it really does change lives of many individuals that have the burning desire of financial freedom.

        I’m happy to know that you know your values, you are successful, and I wish the best for you and everyone else here. But be open to the fact that there are genuinely nice people in this business, and work with an honest heart to really help people grow in this business, because this business has potential just like any other business, for you to make it as big as you want, and stop whenever you want. People like us still exist today, and in this business. Although my business approach is different than the IBO that approached you, I don’t just recruit anyone or vulnerable people for my team, I’m building a team of motivated individuals, who are driven and know what they want. Don’t assume Amway/wwdb doesn’t work, it does, and it’s making more money than all of us combined in this blog.

        Lastly, the book you mentioned “Amway: The Cult of free enterprise”, he talks about quixtar/amway back in the days, not about wwbd. And I’m sorry, but I wouldn’t make assumptions from a book written by an author who only wrote one MLM or business related book in his lifetime based on his experience back in the 80s originally published in 85, which means its biased and outdated. He is not a bestseller author for MLMs, or for General Business section.. I really have no reason to read his book/s.

        I enjoyed your blog either way. All the best!

        Ps: Everything we have today in this world in 2016 is because someone had a dream, a vision, and they worked hard and made it reality. Example: this macbook I’m using right now, was someone’s dream, and it sure wasn’t built overnight.

        Let that sink in.
        Oh, by the way, Apple is Amway’s partner store, and I don’t think I have to tell you Apple’s reputation and its worth.

      • >>How many IBOs did you meet/encounter before you made this assumption about us being motivated by just money? (Re. your reply to Eagle). I know you said “most”, which could be true, or not, but how many IBOs did you actually encounter and talk with and find out their values and ask them why they do what they do?< <

        I met at least 5 of them. All approach using the same way and all wear lurking in Starbucks.

        Apart from meeting a bunch in person I did read **a lot of articles**, testimonies from deceived Amway IBOs and the book I mention at the end of the article.

        >>I would appreciate a proper discussion instead of having you mock and judge me as a “typical amway person” and assume my education background and the money I “lost” in this business. All based on assumptions from my reply? < <

        Yes, I am sorry to have judged you like this. I have a bad experience with Amway people…based on my own encounter with the 5 people who all acted the same with me.
        See this article:

        They were not genuine and all they care about is to recruit people so they make more money. Their smile and friendliness is all fake. That’s my experience with 5 different people.

        They seem to get / receive the same training. It is easy to spot natural people from people who are acting.

        >>I can argue you asking me about how much money I’ve lost and my status of financial independence with Amway, makes me wonder if money is the motivating factor for you? But I don’t like to think that way because I don’t blame you, you weren’t approached the right way with this business. < <

        No money is not my motivating factor as I expressed before. My passion comes first. However, all the 5 that approached me don’t listen whether I like what I want to do or not. They always stress “financial independence”. Look at Eagle’s response above: “do you have to love it?”, he asks.

        >>You asked how much I’ve “lost” so far and my financial independence status- We’ve been with Amway for 7 months now and we are making a profit around $400/month, after all the monthly business costs. But yes, you got me, we don’t have the financial independence.. yet. We’ve only been in business for 7 months and a business takes 2-5 years to build, with gains and losses. < <

        Based on my research not many people make it (again, remember an MLM system cannot accomodate everybody) and it demands a lot of efforts that could be spent building a more versatile skill.

        I chose to spend my time learning / sharpening marketable and in-demand skills, etc… I have a good job that pays me well and I believe it will be more rewarding financially than Amway will ever be.

        Remember, a multilevel marketing scheme will not be able to accomodate ad-infinitum…and you will never retire. The wheel will not run itself. You have to keep recruiting.

        Keep in mind that: your upline did not retire. The 28 year old mentor who has inspired you, did not really retire either. They don’t mentor you because they love you. They have to keep recruiting and you were chosen as a recruit. You will do the same and recruit others if you want to keep making money.

        >>I’m sure you knew that. Also, I had to pay out of my pocket in the beginning when I started the business, but which business doesn’t have start up costs and monthly costs? I’m sure you knew that as well. I won’t lie, I worked really hard for the extra $400/month, most importantly, I built habits – success habits. Extra $400/month might mean nothing to you though, which is okay. I see it as profit and success so far. And I still managed to keep my friends and family close. I know my priorities because I’m my own boss. I didn’t sign my life away to my amway, wwdb or my upline and blindly follow everything they say.< <

        Even 1$ extra means a lot to me. It means that I earned something for my efforts. Sure everything requires an initial and continuous money / time investment. Amway and WWDB, based on my research require you to keep buying stuff you don’t need, stuff that are overpriced and they limit your choice by having you buy from your own shop / “business”.

        If you are honest with yourself you will see that you can find cheaper products and you can even save more. Have you heard of the term “spending to save”? That gives you the illusion that you’re making / saving money but in reality you are spending.

        You say you are your own boss? I kind of disagree. As long as you have an upline to report to, share everything with then you are not your own boss. Dare you upset your upline and you are kind of in deep trouble.

        On the other hand, those who create their own products (say a writer), market and distribute them, then that individual is his/her own boss.

        >>Everything I learned from wwdb resources and training, I applied it to my work as well< <

        I know. WWDB has a big library of “tools” that you have to buy. Those who create the tools profit more than the IBOs who sell Amway products.

        There is so much “tools” and motivation CDs you can buy to keep your dream. You don’t need a lot honestly. But again, you have to go to functions, spend money on tools and what not!

        How many self help books you need to read / learn?

        How many “success” Amway stories burned on a CDROM you need to listen to?

        How many functions you need to travel, spending money for hotel/food, in order to keep your dream up?

        Too much efforts for little return.

        Don’t dread a regular job but dread the stuck mentality. I have a regular job but it is something I cherish because it helps me grow, practice my creativity, earn a living and most importantly helps me plan my independence. As an extra effort, I write on the side and sell my books.

        To be realistic, if I plan my finances right, I can chose to retire comfortably in no longer than 10 years.

        >>I get an increased salary and extra $4500+ residual from Amway, by the end of this year. Also, get tax returns from business costs next year. So yes, I have seen success in my personal and business life, we invested our time and dedicated ourselves to learn what this business had to offer. And, my education background is in healthcare informatics, just like IT, healthcare is always in demand, and I absolutely cannot complain about my salary. My husband and I are pretty well settled in our mid 20s. My husband can retire at 42 for his service. So money is not the issue here. Just like you, we have values too. I grew up seeing poverty all around me until I was 11.< <

        You too seem like good people and that’s the reason I have this blog post. Because from my experience and all the research I have done, WWDB / Amway destroys lives / brainwashes people into unrealistic thoughts than it does anything good.

        Again, a regular 9 to 5 job is not something to dread if you think right and plan right. You don’t have to do that all your life. Learn how to draft a plan and get out of it realistically.

        >>Helping people is huge for me. With the time commitment I have with my job, I’m unable to do what I really want to do – humanitarian travel – that’s my goal for my early-mid 30s. Don’t get me wrong, I love my job, Amway can’t tell me to hate my job. But my job won’t wait for me, and they sure as hell won’t pay me while I’m gone 3-4 months to help a village out in another country. All I’m trying to do is replace my income with residual income so I can commit my time to humanitarian activities, enough residual to give back and experience life, people, history, cultures and help communities and villages around the world.< <

        I understand. Helping others is always good. God gave us the gift of life for a reason. First let us help ourselves, be in good terms, then let us look upon others. We are not saviors. Slowly but surely, life will give us a chance to start sharing more with outsiders. If you believe in God then you believe that God is just and that for everything there’s a reason.

        Don’t underestimate how much you can help others but just being the best version of yourself in your daily life, at work and among your friends.

        >>And it sure is a BIG dream. It scares me to dream this big, but it keeps me going at work and most importantly, in this business. And yes, I have been successful in it so far and it really does change lives of many individuals that have the burning desire of financial freedom.< <

        I truly wish you all the luck. I had no intentions to kill any of the Amway recruiter’s dreams or the WWDB mentees dreams. My intentions are just to draw their attention before it is too late.

        >>I’m happy to know that you know your values, you are successful, and I wish the best for you and everyone else here. But be open to the fact that there are genuinely nice people in this business, and work with an honest heart to really help people grow in this business, because this business has potential just like any other business, for you to make it as big as you want, and stop whenever you want. People like us still exist today, and in this business. Although my business approach is different than the IBO that approached you, I don’t just recruit anyone or vulnerable people for my team, I’m building a team of motivated individuals, who are driven and know what they want. Don’t assume Amway/wwdb doesn’t work, it does, and it’s making more money than all of us combined in this blog. < <

        Surely Amway makes money. Its model and money making scheme and the MLM scheme is what irritates me.

        A good product sells itself. You know how many times I have been pressured / pestered by sales people to buy something I don’t need or something overpriced?

        To salesmen: let me make a decision and buy, don’t come knock at my door, ring my phone and keep shaming me until I buy.

        >>Lastly, the book you mentioned “Amway: The Cult of free enterprise”, he talks about quixtar/amway back in the days, not about wwbd. And I’m sorry, but I wouldn’t make assumptions from a book written by an author who only wrote one MLM or business related book in his lifetime based on his experience back in the 80s originally published in 85, which means its biased and outdated. He is not a bestseller author for MLMs, or for General Business section.. I really have no reason to read his book/s.
        I enjoyed your blog either way. All the best!< < The tenants of the book I mentioned still hold mostly true. The company has changed quixstar but a new reincarnation has popped up. Research about those uplines who made it to diamonds and then research how they are doing right now. Read about the Duncans. Look at the functions and the videos: they come to stage to flash their golden watches, their fancy cars and cloth. This is dreadful. There is no humility in that. They come to stage to motivate you? Why don't they come humble? I am talking to people who are enticed by shiny things: cars, fame, fortune, more stuff than they need, etc... Then those people, in functions, talking about Christianity and talk about faith and what not. Don't use religion to motivate people. Again: be humble. If you are a good person, you don't have to say "I am good because I am a Christian". What Jesus said about that? ==> Matthew 6:3 ==> But when you give to the needy, do not let your left hand know what your right hand is doing,

        >>Let that sink in.
        Oh, by the way, Apple is Amway’s partner store, and I don’t think I have to tell you Apple’s reputation and its worth.< <

        Apple, SBX or other business being a partner with Amway store mean nothing, really.

        These are my thoughts and I wish you well.

      • I appreciate your response, I really do. But we will have to agree to disagree. I cannot stress enough on the fact that it all depends on your upline. My upline are people that really helped me grow, trust me, the minute we feel any pressure it will raise red flags for us. Being in business for 7 months now, I can honestly say that they have been there for me to lift me up, not bring me down. For us, wwdb is a checklist. I absolutely agree with you regarding the Duncans. Their lifestyle doesn’t motivate me, but how they did it, thats what intrigues me. I have a different value system than them. But yes, I agree with you.

        My mentor doesn’t have to love me, he’s investing his time in me so I can disucss with him my accomplishments and failures, future objectives and life in general. And I am fortunate enough to have a mentor who shares his accomplishments and failures with me so we can learn from each other and grow. At a workplace, you report to your boss and talk to them about your future career plans. Difference is, your boss will be making more money than you, always, in the employment sector. But in this business, I can end up making more money than my mentor, because it is my business and I run it the way it works for me. Everyone needs a mentor/coach in their life, every successful person has/had a mentor to help master their craft – it doesn’t have to do anything with whether they love you or not. Remember, MLM system is changing, the newer generation is entering in this business and it will continue to change. We focus more on mentoring and coaching people.

        Some people just join it to pay off debts and create assets so they don’t have to rely on recruiting forever. You do what you want to do, its your own business. Again, depends how your mindset is and your upline.

        In my personal opinion, until an individual hasn’t personally tried this business and experienced failures, they can’t judge the business, the MLM system.

        All the the best and thank you for wishing me the same.

      • Hello Ishrat, thanks for your reply. I am okay with agreeing to disagree. Also note that this article is about my encounter and experience and nothing else. My views about this business in my comments above are from research, lots of articles and from experience of others who share on the internet.

      • you are living the scam, employee mindset, your opinion comes from years of brainwashing, I can’t blame you
        there’s people that waste their lives going to college get in debt and struggle getting in the field the they spent so much money on. now their spending the rest of their lives paying that back. the system we live under doesn’t work. the national debt should prove that, even if you make 100k a year you probably have no time for your kids and family you will always have to report to someone.

      • The Amway system is no different and you are not being honest. You hide so many details where you guys swap “the boss / manager” with “the upline”.
        I am not against Amway per say but against the recruiting strategy and all their dishonest techniques. I am all for being one owns boss but Amway / WWDB / any other pyramid scheme is not sustainable / the way to go.

  4. Reading these comments surely leave a bitter sweet taste in my mouth.
    Why expend so much energy to label all distributors as if we are dealing meth.
    Why not admit from the start that any industry with humans working it will have a the good .bad and the ugly as part of it.
    What makes Amway so special in your eyes, that it has to be perfect.
    There are professional networkers and there are scammers everywhere in every single industry.

    Why the evangelistic smear campaigne ,taking this oppertunity away from many prospects that that actualy were looking and got their eyes on this public toilet door.
    I respect the Amway distributor who responded so professionally in the previous comments.

    I have learned to work around the damage that dodgy networkers cause for us professionals. I educate all I present this business to about the baised
    labeling you find on blogs like this.

    What is the purpose of this one sided and short sighted blog?
    I am so thankfull i was presented this business.
    Still to this day no one was able to present a ‘feature and benifit’ list that comes close to this business model including the disadvantages of mlm which should be told to business partners by the distributers themselves when presenting this opertunity.
    I guess as long as mlm is not 100% perfect these baised blogs would be plastered all over the internet and even then someone would blog negetive about it being 100%perfect.

    I sell entrepeneurship, give hope,help and coach families to see themselves beyond their current position if they are looking…..
    What is wrong with that?
    What is wrong with registering and legitimizing your business,paying tax and building a big retail and consumer group?

    Why not acnowledge that you can be professional in business or mess up big time?

    • Hello Len,

      You are missing the point / message behind this blog post so your questions and wondering are really out of topic.

      I am describing my experience with the recruiters mainly: how they wasted my time, how insincere they were, how mysterious and deceiving they were. Sorry but that’s what happened.

      There are so many other blogs from people who joined and quit that tell horror stories, so my “public toilet door” is nothing in the bucket of all articles and stories on the internet, m’kay?

      Apart from the links I have in my blog post end section, here’s one more entry worthwhile reading:

      Perhaps you just search for: “is it good to do amway business” and notice how the majority of reports are not in favor of the cultish practices are used and how in the long run the efforts you put, if you put to learn another skill you will get the same gains.

      Yes, the other recruiter lady was professional. I respect her choices.

      So future commentators, don’t come here defend Amway. This blog post is about my encounter…sorry that’s what happened.

      • Your blog reflects one side still.
        Horror stories….
        Is that all?
        Im defending entrepeneurship .
        Why not copy and paste one of the thousands of positive well researched testimonies.
        If you have something better, tell me what you can bring to the table.
        I’ve had horror experiences in my life with landlords,bankers,plumbers, solicitors,mechanics,churches,friends,ebay where i still buy,just wisely.
        Your experience and the hardcore negative bloggers is far from representing this on a survey basis.
        I deal successfully with this stigma every day.
        It is annoying however.
        Its absulutely your right to publish your individual and subsequent 40 minute research project.

        Just try to find something legit and positive please, only if you want to, I’m not telling you to do this. It will look cheesy if i do it for you.

      • Why do you keep missing the point?

        Yes horror story and waste of time with that recruiter as I wrote, that’s what it is about.

        You can find “entrepeneurship” anywhere else, it is a good thing, and I am not against that.

        This blog is about the practices/attitude of the recruiter that I encountered and what happened.

      • To comment more on what I also find “horror” stories is when the Amway / WWDB IBOs are taught that anyone that is not one of them is not a dreamer.

        That they also teach women or men to only “marry a dreamer”, for instance.

        This is a type of “racism” so to say. I don’t like the “us” and “them” mentality.

        I don’t like how they label those with a regular job, as if it is a sin. How they are taught to despise regular jobs and the hands that feeds them.

        I find these kind of brainwashing where you are taught to judge others because they are not part of your group as “horror” stories.

        There are other direct marketing companies that have an upfront/clear business plan w/o all the hassle that a WWDB recruit goes through and having to spend money for tools (lots of tools all the time), or going to expensive functions, and buying motivational CDs all the time…

        Anyway, I expressed all my dislikes and that’s my opinion.

        Believe me, if you fear I will ruin potential recruits and prevent them from joining WWDB / Amway, then too bad. I am just sharing my experience. If you, as a recruiter provide a positive experience for the potential recruit then fine: s/he won’t be afraid to read this article.

        I am sure that are people like yourself, who will not be swayed by blog posts like this, and will take their chances and work hard. Nothing wrong in that. I advocate doing what makes one happy and honest with oneself and others.

      • I appreciate this blog in its entirety. My 5th and final “exclusive meeting” was enough for me. Your experience is so similar (except I only dealt with 1 recruiter). The same script with different ad libs at EVERY bp meeting. Matter of fact, the only consistency is seeing my recruiter and HIS mentor. I initially wasn’t going to attend the “big bp meeting” after all this time I spent at Starbucks with follow- up appointments and driving an hour round trip to someone’s house to hear the SAME story about working minimum wage at bar to gaining financial freedom etc… The biggest problem was my recruiter at the 4th meeting gave me a piece of paper with the cost of operating my own business AFTER I had already told him I’m working 2 jobs, temporary single toddler mom, no extra help…. He had the nerve to tell me to not purchase anything from anywhere, not pay bills, sell my things in order to come up with the $ just to start a business where still not clear is my role or how to get offered partnership with wwdb to be mentored and start generating cash flow by buying from myself. The sad part is he doesn’t know that I know his mentor is the son of 2 of the “head honchos”. The anticipation of finally getting the business education I lack from people who are debt free drove me to want “it”. when I realized the 2-5 year plan didn’t actually start until 2-3 years after $ was given to them and partnership/mentorship was earned/offered (at the same time still having to pay monthly fees with $ I don’t have to POTENTIALLY earn alotta $), I left before the 2nd act/training performance that he “pulled some strings” to get me into. Lol. I was NOT willing to sit there and be called a bad mother, bad wife or bad anything else for working a job/career. It actually made me sad to watch other people soaking these “positive/motivational” words up not know that the speaker was calling everyone in the room, minus othe platinums, idiots only using big words and metaphors and jabs that you have to catch by turning your eagerness for acceptance off and turning your listening ears and good sense on. Thanks for letting me get that out.

      • What else would you expect from cultish lemming-people who are so out of touch with reality? I’m almost embarrassed for them. Good thing you have enough sense to see through the BS.

    • Why? Because most MLM folks of the Amway type (not limitted to just Amway, but a wide range of unaffiliated MLMs) are sleazy, hapless schmucks who are owned by the mongers at the top. I have been bothered by so many of these types and can’t stand their utter vacuity. I once attended a seminar years back when an acquaintance implored me to go. Quixtar was the group, I think. I was quite surprised by how cultish it was. A bunch of failed used car salesmen/women type. As a medical provider, I was made to feel I should escape my “less worthy” profession and save myself from a life of drudgery and insread embrace this promised freedom they offered. It made no sense, so I left, feeling rather duped.

      I make more in real estate passive income now than most of these MLM folk ever will. Sure it took about 10 years of hard work, but I now have assets with a real demand that I can also sell for a profit. You’re much more likely to do well by working hard and investing your money whilst keeping a low cost of living. Simple economics. What are your assets? Could you sell your business? What does your income in Amway depend on? Do your up-line support widely different perspectives? Do they appreciate deeply critical questions? Will they continue being “friends” with you if you disagreed and left? What is it that you really want anyhow and what will you do when you achieve that?

      • Thank you! Good questions, exactly my thoughts but I get tired to explain back to commentators.

  5. Honestly,even concidering your bad experience i dont agree with the noughty list of ‘cultish’things mlm so fondly practice.
    I work in the aviation industry and have heard over the years cultish talk about the JOB arena by the employees that i dare not put on any blog.I dont even have to demonize the job arena.The employees do it themselves.
    We are netting less now than we did in 2006 with more hours per week ,no pension contribution from the company,no medical and the squeeze is increasing.
    This phenomenon represents the majority of the Job arena in Ireland and the your area.actually this is worldwide.
    Last year one suicide.
    Starting a traditional business is out of reach these days for so many.
    I see my collegues dreams fade away .Even the few that study their butts off part time cant find jobs or have to settle for yet a smaller wage with their new degree.
    The industrial age truly is over for most in the modern western world.
    We are competing against heavy aircraft maintanance hourly rates in Budapest and even high quality maintanance doesnt compete with the compeditive maintanance markets.
    This is the state of the real world job arena that no one has to submit to.
    How thankfull i am for the tangible additional income and the power of money and time leverage in my hands.

    How can i not share and teach this.

  6. @Ishrat I doubt you can leave the country for 3-4 months even as an IBO as your business will be in pieces. One thing I can’t stand Amway IBOs say is that IBOs can retire early and can spend time with their family. I see loads of Diamonds, Sapphires who are in their 40s or 50s etc going to different conventions and Spring leadership conferences and such. Doesn’t going to these events count as work? I don’t believe any of these people are retired in the sense that they are still working, and they are working a lot of hours on even mentoring their downlines.

    And you also mentioned that in Amway you can make more money than your upline and maybe even the Duncans. Well I can make a similar argument, that if you really work hard you can get to a high enough position like a Vice President or even a CEO. I guess you can say that a jobholder will never become as rich as the owner of the company so ultimately you are making someone else’s dream come true, not yours. But guess what I can say that, being an IBO you cannot become more rich than the owners of Amway. And that ultimately you are making the Amway owners’ dreams come true.

    • I can leave my business anytime. I don’t know if you know but anyway/wwdb can actually be run from your phone, just like any other business. If I have to communicate with anyone I can at any given time from any part of the world. Of course, I will need Internet, which you can find anywhere. Also, most importantly, I am building a team where I can put the trust in my team leaders. Notice how I don’t say my downline or sponsors because I consider them my business partners and I don’t just choose anyone to be my business partner. Amway/wwdb is a tool for me. If I plan on leaving for 3-5 months or even a year, I can and will put the trust in my business partners. That’s the team I am building.

      Yes I may be making the amway owners rich, but thats everywhere, any company, any business. You are eventually making someone rich no matter what you do because you will be using a system. It’s a circle. In my opinion, that’s not a valid argument. There is a difference between working and running your own your business. Also, I said I can end up making more than my mentor, not the owners of amway or Duncan’s. My goal isn’t to get filthy rich, not everyone in amway/wwdb is the same. And yes I can retire early with the help of this business because I can create assets on the side with this residual income. You have to be creative & smart and think outside the box for this business, just like any other. It’s a tool, it comes with instructions but at the end, you use it the way you want to. It is my business and I run it the way I want. My goal isn’t to go to functions and give speeches when I’m in my 40s or 50s. These speakers are not forced to do it, they choose to and they get paid for it. I see nothing wrong with that. It’s not considered “work” when you have a choice to either say yes or no.

      I am always up for a conversation where I can share my knowledge and listen to others do the same, not arguments where you have already made up your mind based on your general idea. Again, not everyone’s the same, there’s hundred thousands of IBOs. You don’t know how I run my business. You don’t know me nor my business partners. So I am sorry but in my opinion, you’re not in any position to assume or tell me that my business will fall to pieces if I go away for a period of time.

      I wish you all the best, Andrew. Like I said, I appreciate conversations, not arguments. With that being said, I will only reply here when someone asks me questions with an open mind, instead of arguing against everything I have said. I sincerely respect everyone and their choices. I am here to share, not argue.
      Best of luck.

      • Ishrat,
        I admire your comments and would like to talk to you outside out this public setting about prospects and recruiting and the whole ordeal, considering I am going through a. Tough time with a significant other involved with WWDB. My email is I look forward to hearing from you and appreciate your time. Thank you!

  7. I met my ‘mentors’ a year ago and was involved in the business for almost a year. I wanted so bad to make it in this “business” as I was fed and told so much bs – I was naive and didn’t even know what “network marketing” really was when I first met my mentors.
    I am officially a “quitter” – I quit the business because I was spending so much money on products and was not getting anywhere. I was having serious problems in my life and my mentors did not seem to care or have any sympathy, all they wanted was for me to “build the business” and “all my worries would go away”. They started treating me so different, and the people that I had met a year ago and thought were my friends, turned into money hungry people who only wanted to talk to me if I was contributing to their bank account. I felt used by them – I thought they actually were my friends, but they are not the same people I met a year ago. But that’s the whole game – they make you buy into them. You have to be aware, that these people go to trainings, to learn how to be likable and to attract you. They learn how to talk to you, and make you think that they actually care about you – they tell you that they want to help you build a future for yourself, and how they are willing to put all this time aside to help you and connect you to the people that they know, but it’s all a way to get your money. Be smarter than them. I wish I was.
    Let me break it down:
    – They specially target certain ages (19-30). Although they say not to judge people and to “share what’s available” aka recruit everyone, literally everyone. They say anybody over 30 is “brainwashed by society” and at the idea of working forever.
    – They also go for couples and not singles, because they feel like they will be more committed. SO if you are single and you join the business, prepare to be outcasted because they won’t spend as much time with you as they do with other couples.
    – They will pep talk you and tell you everything that you want to hear – THEY ARE SALES PEOPLE even though they say they are not. They are selling themselves!!
    – They will tell you that the opportunity is not ‘network marketing’ but to get around financially independent people. “I don’t know about you, but have you ever met anyone that retired in their 20s?” – that’s what they will feed you. “It’s all about who you know – and we are so blessed to be connected to amazing people…”
    – If you flat out ask them if it’s amway or network marking, they will say NO! They will say that the opportunity is for mentorship (which I think is kind of crap that they lie).
    – They will tell you how your job will never get you anywhere, and how you are 100% replaceable (which is true, so they make sure they hit a bunch of soft spots to really get you vulnerable). They will trash your job and tell you that society has raised us to think that it’s ‘normal’ to go to school to get a degree that will never get you anywhere but in debt, and to work a job that will never get you to your dreams, but that this business is the only thing that will give you time and money.
    – They will make you read books that will brainwash you more – honestly most of them are great books, but they all are specific to “the business.”
    – They make money off your membership (my upline wouldn’t answer me when I asked them this, so I went and asked a rep at wwdb and YES, they make money off of you not only from your amway products)
    – They will hound and pester you to go to EVERY event, EVERY training, and all board plans. They will tell you to sell anything to get there and get anyone to watch your kids because this is your future. They are able to see if you purchase your tickets online, so they will bug you until you buy them.
    – They will not allow you to talk to your ‘crossline’ – so all the people that your upline sponsors and the people that you are always around at functions, you aren’t allowed to speak to in fear of speaking negatively about your coach.
    – They will make you do ‘ditto’ on a specific date every month, so they know when their money is coming in. They will hound you about this in the days leading up, to make sure you put in your order. And they can see everything that you ordered, and they will be tracking how much PV you are doing.
    – The minimum order you can do a month is 100 PV which calculates to about $350-400 (they will lie and tell you that it’s not that much). That’s a lot of money to be spending on crap (in my opinion). They will tell you that it’s the best products in the world and that you are not to go to the grocery store anymore but to survive on only these products and to basically tough it out. And if you are only doing 100 PV, they will pressure you to do more and more and tell you that in fact, they are doing 500-700PV (which is aprox $1200 – $2200). They will tell you that for couples, the minimum you should be doing is 300PV a month ($800-1000). And they will lay it out for you like this… “do you spend at least $10 a day on food? They you are more than capable of paying for these products and consuming only this.”
    – They will tell you that it’s not a business that focuses on sales so that you don’t have to go around and sale products to people, BUT IT’S A LIE. You have to sell minimum 50PV ($150-200) worth of products every month. SO they will tell you to convince your family to be supportive and buy your products instead of buying from the store. If your family is anything like mine, they aren’t going to want anything to do with your network marketing sales crap.
    – On top of the minimum amount you have to do each month (100PV + 50PV) you also have to pay for your world wide membership + the communikate app + all the training materials and any functions that month. This calculates to be about $150-250 a month (so add that to your PV every month).
    – They will tell you to sale all of your stuff in order to pay for your products – I was told of people selling their beds and their cars. They will try to get you to do anything.
    – They make you be in constant contact with them every day. On their “communikate app” you are to tell them about EVERY CONVERSATION you have had with anyone so they can walk you through what you did wrong and how to do better next time.
    – They will tell you to stay away from your family and friends because they won’t understand that you are building their future and will be negative, they brainwash you to think that you are “helping people” NOT recruiting people.
    – They will tell you that your kids will not have a future if you do not build this business.
    – They will criticize you for everything you do – I find it funny because they are so “uplifting and supportive” but yet they judge you for everything and belittle everyone in society but yet they don’t want you being around people that do that.
    – The trainings, the CDs, all of it is brainwashing.
    – The entire business is hypocritical. I know that people aren’t perfect, but your upline will tell you not to do things that they themselves do – which really bugs me.
    – They will tell you to find any babysitter, and basically leave your kid with anyone so you can go to functions.
    – They will ask for a list of your expenses so they can see what you can do away with every month and put into “the business.”

    Stay AWAY!!!

    • ALSO – for people that tell them that this is a pyramid, they will tell you that in fact your job is a pyramid and that your making your CEO rich and you are all the way at the bottom.

      • I know. They don’t understand the difference between a pyramid and MLM versus corporate jobs that have hierarchical structure.

    • Sorry you had such a horrible experience, Holly, because that’s exactly what it is if you’re not a brain-washed RoboFlop. I’ve been approached by many of these types on military bases and it’s always the same sorry schmuck of a person (not just Amway or WWDB, but all sorts of MLMs). Amway is in in fact a remarkably self-serving model that offers little benefit to society and most of the IBOs involved. Serious members often come off as creepy evangelicals proselytizing a cult, but with little to show. People like you cut thru the bull crap and drop it. The vast majority who stick with it, however, appear to be vapid individuals whom are grossly unsettled in their own skin–members of a fanatical church catering to lost souls as it were.

    • Holly, thanks for sharing your story.

      During my extensive research about WWDB and Amway sales people, I learned the same points you mentioned.

      Sorry they lured you in.

    • Exactly!!!!!!! You spelled the whole process out for people who are thinking or have even been appoached by this mysterious opportunity. THANK YOU. Its all true. I “disqualified” myself 2 weeks ago.

  8. stay away from Irvine Spectrum in Ca.
    The place is swarming with these people.
    We were approached by a couple named Jordan and Cheryl. They approached my wife and I and they were so ridiculously over the top excited about life, it creeped us out. They said they were retiring soon but they just seemed so weird.
    Come to find out, I work with someone who was approached by the same couple in Costa Mesa at Target and actually sat down with them for a few times before realizing it was in fact Amway and network marketing, as they said it wasn’t.
    Total garbage.

    • You were creeped out by someone who was excited about life…wow. I would prefer to be around people who are excited about life.

      • How did you come up with this conclusion: “people who are excited about life”? Is that how people excited about life look to you?

        – not straightforward
        – friendly for a cause. ask them questions and they became hostile…believe me, I have more stories about my encounters and how they turn hostile if I don’t respond as they were expecting per the scripts they learn and recite…

  9. ARE YOU KIDDING? They at least were taking you through a process to see if YOU were a good fit for the business and whether YOU would be a waste of their time versus them wasting a few hours of your time. They didn’t try to lure you in and pressure you to sign up on the first meeting. You have got to give those guys credit for that. Going into traditional business for yourself is a risky thing. That is why franchises put applicants through a process. And seeing how negative and brutal many of these repliers are to your blog post, I can understand why they’d be hesitant to share just anyone their business. I do asset building and I don’t want every Tom, DIck and Harry knowing “what” and “how” I build my asset… if they want me to teach them then they need to prove they are worth my time. It’s disheartening to see how many average joes feel entitled to know everything up-front so they can make a quick uneducated judgement…. i personally would think that if this was a serious business opportunity, an interview process is warrented. And you, my friend, just failed that.

    And fyi- yes my old job was a pyramid…. the owner made ALL the money while he paid me in pennies compared to what I made him. And as inflation keeps doing its thang and cost of living goes up, he still paid me the same as he did years before. No raises matching inflation. Homeboy just kept on getting richer and richer while I had to put in more hours. and THAT is why I went into business for myself.

    Just my thoughts as someone from the outside looking in. Most of you prolly need this Amway opportunity because you’re too stupid and closeminded to even think. Just vomit out everyone else’s experiences. Not traits of successful people.

    • Hi Jo.
      Very well said my friend!
      Totally agree.
      One thing about all the HATERS you and I and anyone in this profession and the sales profession will experience daily is that haters like we see here tell more about themselves than about the networkmarketer .They most probably quit on themselves and have no where else to spew their true self.
      These haters fuel me .I need them and their insecurity.
      If they were true entrepeneurs they wouldnt show these ‘schoolyard fued crybaby in the victim traits’
      Bring it on haters!

      • I happen to be one of those haters. I also happen to have an income of over $200,000 providing a useful service to trauma and surgical patients. You sell candy bars to yourself and your family. But good luck to you.

      • I dont hate on your game and income .Do you know me?
        You can do better than 200K .
        Dont flash your income in front of my proves nothing.
        Next time you are prospected by a mlm entrepeneur rather ask them to tel you about themselves and and stop being so paranoid .
        Remember……theres a thin line between hate and love.
        You guys are very entertaining!

      • Len,

        Good luck in what you do.

        Come back in 5 years and share your success and independence story. Success speaks for itself.

        If you fail and feel disenchanted, you are welcome to join the club of “haters” as you call them.

        Read stories of people who were sincere, perhaps as much as you are, to the business but then got disenchanted…they are not haters, they are fact tellers.

        Same for this article, if you read it again, it just tells my story. it is not hate or love it is what it is and what they did…

    • ARE YOU KIDDING? They at least were taking you through a process to see if YOU were a good fit for the business and whether YOU would be a waste of their time versus them wasting a few hours of your time. They didn’t try to lure you in and pressure you to sign up on the first meeting. You have got to give those guys credit for that. Going into traditional business for yourself is a risky thing. That is why franchises put applicants through a process. And seeing how negative and brutal many of these repliers are to your blog post, I can understand why they’d be hesitant to share just anyone their business.

      No, they are not taking me on a process to see if I am a good fit or not. They are luring me. They are not upfront, they are not honest.
      When they approached me and I asked them, “so what it is this business about?”, I was doing that to see if I want to invest time into that and if that is something I want or not.
      Instead, they dodge the question, play their “sales” trick and waste hours of my time. If they told me that at the end it boils doing to selling Amway products and recruiting others then I would have immediately said: “Sorry, not interested”.

      Instead they were hoping to entice me. So, this is where you call this “hate” and I call this “dishonesty”.

      I do asset building and I don’t want every Tom, DIck and Harry knowing “what” and “how” I build my asset… if they want me to teach them then they need to prove they are worth my time. It’s disheartening to see how many average joes feel entitled to know everything up-front so they can make a quick uneducated judgement…. i personally would think that if this was a serious business opportunity, an interview process is warrented. And you, my friend, just failed that.

      I explained above my view. It is not about any “entitlement” or anything. Read the above and understand my point.

      You compare their dishonesty and misleading efforts to an interview process? If this comparison makes you feel good about their practice, then I won’t argue with you.
      Normal people know that a job interview is nothing like that, nor it is misleading.

      And fyi- yes my old job was a pyramid…. the owner made ALL the money while he paid me in pennies compared to what I made him. And as inflation keeps doing its thang and cost of living goes up, he still paid me the same as he did years before. No raises matching inflation. Homeboy just kept on getting richer and richer while I had to put in more hours. and THAT is why I went into business for myself.

      Yeah sure. I keep hearing that line. My job is not a pyramid. It has the hierarchy of a pyramid but it does not work like MLM. So take that argument back from where it came from, we have dealt with it many times in the comments to this article.

      Just my thoughts as someone from the outside looking in. Most of you prolly need this Amway opportunity because you’re too stupid and closeminded to even think. Just vomit out everyone else’s experiences. Not traits of successful people.

      I tell you what Jo. Go, work hard with Amway and their MLM scheme and come back when you make some income and become a real business owner. I would be happy to hear your success story.
      From now until you feel burned out and change camps, there is no need to argue.

      Success speaks for itself. I will be waiting.

      Good luck to you. See you in 5 years right? Isn’t that what they promise you when you will be independent?

  10. Well, well, well,

    I came to this blog because I have attended four sessions so far with hardly any information about what the “business” was. I was promised more in-depth info last night and after two hours it was just repeating what was said in the Starbucks three times before. So, I came online to look at reviews. This blog was the fourth review. After reading all the reviews I notice that those who have experienced this recruitment have a similar story to what is unfolding for me. I understand the concept of making sure a person is the right fit first before letting them in but what makes me distrust this is how eerily familiar the success stories, the admonition for listening to family and friends and the whole process seems to be. If this is legitimate why do they have to recite word for word the same way?
    I was approached by someone I knew who wanted to share business ideas. I have a small business and thought it was genuine networking. I share mine. You share yours. Then I noticed the turn towards IBO. I am open minded so I went along. But how is it that you are going to approach me to become a part of something and then suddenly flip it and ask me to treat this like an interview and convince you why you should let me in. I never asked for an interview.
    Another thing I notice is that they kept saying that the “opportunity” here is to be “mentored” by the person who invited me. That was weird to me because the person who invited me was 10 months in and had not made any money. So I was confused about that. They kept talking about mentorship about life, marriage, finances and all that but I didn’t see where this person could help me with any of that as I knew for a fact that this person had bigger issues than I did.

    So I made my way here and I’m glad I did. I have seen both sides and the people who are saying Amway is misunderstood all use the same story and words and don’t seem to get that this actually turns people off. It makes me realize the dynamic presentation last night was dishonest. Even the jokes he told I saw some of them here. I feel icky for even laughing at them.

    If it quacks like a duck…it’s probably a duck.

    • Hi Jmommy,

      Thanks for sharing your story. I wrote this article last year and still to this day the recruiters use the same method.

      I feel the same as you and no matter how much the recruiters spin their scenario and try to turn it against us (they are interviewing us, they want to see if we are worthy, etc.) it is still a very dishonest method.

      I was like you, genuinely wanting to learn about a business opportunity but they were misleading and always hiding something. They only care about recruiting more people so THEY make more money. It does not feel they care about who they hire as long as they hire someone.

  11. I had an encounter with a recruiter at Starbucks, and attended a secret meeting at Loma Linda Community Center. About 150 people showed up. I wanted to find out more about this business myself. After talking with the leaders (doctors, dentist, nurses, engineer, and a student), I was deeply troubled by their secrecy and elitist mentality.

    After returning from the meeting, I read your experience and other online resources, I realized that Amway/World Wide Group is a misleading fraudulent business that manipulates people’s fears into stealing their valuable time and money in order to pay for the leaders’ and mentors’ opulent lifestyles.

    Thank you for sharing your story. I also contacted another friend who was also targeted by the same recruiter, and warned him not to waste his valuable time on his impending meeting at Starbucks. He thanked me for warning him.

  12. I was deeply offended by the recruiter’s words and attitudes. Here are some of the following:

    1. “If you have to carry turd for two years in order to become successful, would you do it?”

    What a demeaning statement! I do not consider myself a proud person because I have many flaws, but do not devalue me by equalizing my work as carrying a turd!

    2. “You said your mother was weak right? What if your mother dies in one year? Would you not want to achieve financial freedom so that you would spend more time with her?”

    How dare you try to manipulate my feeling about my mother in order to gain my business!

    3. “Why did God let our lives cross paths? It must be because you can attend professional school and do business at the same time.”

    I am not the best Christian, but I am a God-fearing man. You are misusing God’s name for your own selfish needs. How dare you! You give other Christians a bad name!

    4. “You can do business and study at the same time. I believe in you.”

    In order for me to be successful in school, I focus from 8 am until 12 pm every day. I cannot have a business while attending school. How many times do I have to repeat this! I told her at least five times.

    5. I had to skip a meeting because a friend was admitted to the ER. She asked: “Why cannot your brother be there instead of you?” “Would you miss a chance to interview for a job that earns $75,000 dollars a years in order to be with your friend at the ER?”

    There comes a time when we have to choose ethics and values over money. Plus, do not throw these hypothetical questions at me in order to manipulate my actions! You are not my conscience!

    6. After I told her money is not everything in life, She replied: “It’s not about money. It is about mentorship.”

    Mentorship, mentorship, mentorship…is that your favorite word?

  13. The lady was trying very hard to control my actions and thoughts. Judging by her body language and tone of her voice, she easily frustrated whenever she realized that I cannot be easily controlled.

  14. During the meeting, I was amazed by some leaders’ words.
    1. The speaker was boasting about his two-week vacation with his son while making fun of fathers who cannot spend quality time with their children. He then proceeded to mention how he retired his wife’s parents and not her sons!

    Sir, if you are boasting about the money that are made by misleading hundreds and thousands of people’s fears and hopes for the future, you are a dishonorable and disgraceful human being.

    2. I asked one of the top leaders a question: “What product are you promoting?” Her puzzled and rude response: “It’s about mentorship!”

    I did not study business in college, but I do know that “mentorship” does not make money! Selling products and services do!

    3. I asked the speaker’s wife: “Do you have a business card?” Her response: “We’ve done away with business cards long time ago.” “If you have questions, contact through your recruiter, Jennifer (false name).”

    A legitimate business that does not give contact sounds suspicious to me. Plus, this woman has complete control over all of her recruiters who provide “mentorships.” I am confident that your recruiters’ mentorships provided you with your expensive clothes, jewelry, and shoes. For your information, she decorated herself very well.

    4. I asked a leader who claims to be an engineer after having 10 minute conversation: “May I have your contact information so that I can ask more questions about the business?” His response: “I am very careful when I am giving out my contact information. If you have questions, ask your recruiter. She will contact me.”

    Throughout the evening, I asked three leaders for their contact or business card. All of their response was identical. “Ask your recruiter, and they will contact us.” This fraudulent business is made up of network of leaders who are manipulating their workers to sell their products. Products? My apologies…mentorships. They provide mentorships.

    5. I asked another leader about the business model. Her response: “If you want to know more, you must earn the right to learn more about the business and to have direct contact with us.”

    A legitimate business values transparency, honesty, and humility. Your business values secrecy, ambiguity, and lies. Plus, making a lot of money in your fraudulent business does not make you more special than me. I do not want to “earn” your trust. I quit!

    6. After having 3 minute conversation she said: “I can tell you have what it takes to be successful in this business.”

    You do not know me as a person. Please do not use your flattery on me. Your attempt to control my time and money has failed.

    7. During the success stories, two women was crediting that this business saved their marriage. If it were not achieving financial independence, they claimed that they probably would have been divorced. They insinuated that joining this business would have saved many failed marriages. Both of them even managed to shed tears during their presentation.

    Trying to entice other women into your fraudulent business by using their fears of divorce is unethical.

    8. The leader who organized the event is a physician. Several of her followers were nurses working in the same hospital.

    It is ironic that people who work to save lives are living a double life by destroying people’s time and money.

    9. The same physician told me. “I have been through professional school. I know the workload. If you are committed, you can invest 8 to 10 hours of your time while attending professional school.”

    You want me to “invest” up to 10 hours of my study time every week?! No thanks! You, as a former medical student, know each hour is precious, and yet you want to me waste my time making you richer instead of being dedicated to my academics? What a hypocrite! Do as I say not as I do, right?

    This physician who is supposed to be a leader of the community is misleading people for her selfish needs. Because a doctor is a one of leaders of this company, the average public is more likely to trust the misleading lies that are designed to brain wash the audience.

    10. The physician also said: “Don’t you want to rich so that your woman can retire and not work?”

    You lure women by using their fear for a potential divorce, and you try to lure men by making them feel shameful of their earning potential? How can you, a professional woman, demean other women by assuming that they do not want to work? You also insult women by insinuating that they are more likely to be married to a man if they are richer.

    • Thanks for all your comments. I am not surprised at all by what you write. I have spent a great deal of research and online reading (apart from my personal experience) and what you say is correct. It is a shame that those who are entangled do not know what will befall them in the long term. I wish people are more honest and less selfish in this day and age.

  15. I just think it’s funny that someone can extend their hand and take you through an entire education process with no opportunity to get “signed up” into it. They explained to you what the opportunity was, as well as what it was going to look like to succeed over the course of five years. Then because the opportunity wasn’t something you wanted to pursue, you wrote a blog about it to warn people? Then people come on here talking about a scam as if they aren’t apart of one everyday. All of us employees pay into a social security fund that anyone under 40 will most likely never see. We give a boss 50 weeks a year and they give us 2 weeks off. They have us work 5 days a week and they give us 2 and they then tell us we should be “grateful”. THOSE are scams. Let me ask, as an employee, can you EVER be the owner of the company you work for? The answer is no, which means you can never make more than the people above you. Sounds like a scam. I just think before writing a blog that could really hurt some peoples futures because an opportunity wasn’t for YOU is a little immature. But if someone is more influenced by a blog than allowing themselves to make a decision for themselves, then I don’t want to work with someone like that anyway.

    • Hi Cinman626. You made the following question/remark: “Let me ask, as an employee, can you EVER be the owner of the company you work for? The answer is no, which means you can never make more than the people above you.”

      A few things…

      Some of the very basic tenants of business are the concepts of VALUE, DEMAND, WORTH and PROFIT. If you run a company that provides a VALUE that is in DEMAND, then your company is WORTH more than you have put in to it. This generally means you turn a PROFIT and can either continue providing VALUE to your customers who DEMAND the services and or products for a real or unactualized PROFIT. Or you can likewise *sell* your company to another person/company/entity that sees future PROFIT from continued DEMAND from the VALUE provided. Some examples are staffing agencies, consultancies, medical clinics, subsidiaries and the like. My question to you is this: **Can you sell your business?** That is can you sell what you have worked hard on and developed to provide VALUE that has a real DEMAND, that is WORTH something in the real world? If so can you sell it for a PROFIT and walk away from it? No more managing it and likewise no more income stream, but now you have a butt-load of cash that you can use to build another business or use it however you please…

      The hard and fast answer is NO. You do business, like a pharmaceutical sales rep. But you do not own a business that you can sell for profit, just as sales reps can not sell the company or even their position for profit. Instead, you are a pawn in a PAWNzi scheme (see how I did that…clever). It’s not really a ponzi scheme–those are illegal–but you are part of a pyramid scheme, which, in fact, almost everyone in the world is. I provide medical services to trauma and critically ill patients… I, too, am in the pyramid. So are the hospital CEOs, surgeons, actuaries, insurers, yada, yada, yada… Some make more, some make less.

      But in the meantime, let me teach you the secret to a happy life: First, life is suffering. Realize this and take it as you will. Next, if your reality is based on grand and idealized expectations of future monetary and material wealth with far off promises of unlimited leisure time, you will never be happy. You will forever be in existential angst. Finally, if you truly want your world to be large and wonderous, rich and beautiful, you must continually make yourself small and insignificant through empathy and curiosity.

    • Cinman626, your arguing points have been discussed many times in the comments. In short, what they “presented me” was not something I like or not, or something that is for me or not. First, they were not honest and second (and from my experience and the other commentators’ experiences) those who present the business do it so that you contribute to theirs. Their business is essentially recruiting you, etc. This whole blog post is about how their approach is not honest and genuine. That’s all. I share my story and others confirm the same findings. So why defend such unethical / dishonest business?

  16. Wow…. my experience is just a drop in the bucket! Like others before me I came to this website because I was looking for information…

    I went to a job fair and this guy is standing outside, wanting to talk to me and my wife. He says, I did what you did for 20 years…I only got a quarter of what I was actually making for retirement…

    He then invites me to, you guessed it! Starbucks. He goes over the cash flow quadrant, and also one of Robert’s Kiyosaro’s books. I inquired, he talks motivation, but why does he never speak of what he did? How did he go from nothing to millionaire in a span of 5 years? His response was, it’s not about how he did it. He was willing to do it. He had nothing and got it all. His book was a best seller for 10 years, he knows what he’s talking about!

    I expressed my frustration with him, you’re telling me a lot of things I know, but who do you work for what organization are you supporting? He said “myself”. Now at the time I was like okay, your own business or whatever, but now I realize he literally meant himself. He cared about nothing and no one, he only wanted to make his own ends meet at my expense. But that’s how it is sometimes.

    My meeting was 2 hours from the time of me writing this essay, but he slipped up and sent me some links that directly connected him to wwdb.

    So I searched it. Look and behold, this is where I ended up. And these stories, are quote for quote, my experience with this guy… it’s crazy.

  17. You are amazing buddy thank you for all your research much appreciated ! Here is my story,mmy wife and I had a similar experience here in Sacramento California we were in a local shopping mall with my child and we were at children’s arcade and put of nowhere nice young couple approached us and started chatting with us. After the Smalltalk the guy basically said I’m going to be retiring soon and I’m going to be financially independent How would you like to also? Of course, my wife and I were intrigued ( for all we knew he was a Donald Trump in the making ) so we continue to talk and we asked what they did and he said I can’t possibly tell you we do it would take hours it would be like me trying to teach unthe trade of welding in an hour . So he said what is your number we gave them our number thinking it was harmless we went our separate ways . Then a few days later he called me and I missed his call as I was busy with our kid .I completely forgot about him but then I remembered in the back my mind he said he wanted to make us rich beyhond are wildest dreams so I figured crap I just burnt my only bridge and I figured a true millionaire would give up on someone that didn’t respond back. But nope! This man kept persistently calling us back we eventually got to talk to him on the phone and he said how would you like to set up a meeting with us in a coffee shop so we can discuss what we do because we want to mentor you can basically make you rich . They also said Our mentors who are very rich and retired at age 31 . (Huge red flag) So of course we were intrigued we met up with them he told us must leave your child at home with the baby sitters we disregarded what they said and we took her daughter anyways( no way will be paying a babysitting ) we figured kind in the back of head IT was a scam . he told us to meet us at 12:30 with having a baby it’s never easy leaving the house we didn’t make it there till 1 PM they didn’t even care they said no problem that should’ve been a red flag warning number 2 ! Anyways they dressed all nice and they told us to sit down and we sat down! they said OK, tell us a little bit about yourself we want to get to know you. so I proceeded and I told them about myself then wife told them about herself .. they seemed like they were pretending to be interested and after that they said we want to make you guys money, we want to be your mentors . I proceeded to ask how exactly will we make money? what are you guys offering? what are we selling? Of course they were very vague they never told us and they just said it’s a product we sell, I kept asking them, what is the product but of course they just gave us the same ad lib answer over and over again ! Then they told us their personal mentors they met are very smart and one of them is a prestigious radiologist. They told us they know a secret that only the rich know in the elite only have been passing on this information to a very select amount of people, they been keeping it a secret for many years and they told us only 1500 people even know about it and all of Northern California. Okay so in my head I was thinking the whole time this was obviously too good to be true, I’ve been in sales my whole life so I knew exactly what pitch was and I knew exactly what a pre-laid out sale tactic is ! these guys were trying hard to sell us a dream, saying we were going to be financially independent and needed to be able to spend more time with our daughter and watch her grow like rich people do . Anyways after an hour they said we love to have you back in about three days we want you to read this book 1st called “business in the 21st century!” They said it’s in there truck outside, as we were walking with them out to the parking lot in our head we kinda expected a brand-new fancy truck yet it was an old dilapidated 2003 Tahoe! we figured these guys are so rich why wouldn’t they at least have a somewhat newer model car which was a red flag warning for us!! We got to the truck and when he handed me the book he stood in front of the license plate i’m guessing not wanting me to even see his license plate. it was so strange and fishy. Anyways we took the book we told them we would read it and meet them again they said text me if anything comes up we can always reschedule. So we got in our car and my wife and I were driving home we then started talking about what just unfolded! she said she remembered One keyword which they said was MLM I did a quick Wikipedia search and I read the first paragraph And I instantly knew it was a scam! just like my gut was telling me all along!!! I then found this webpage after doing some google research! anyway the moral of the story is: always trust your gut if something doesn’t feel right then it’s obviously not right!

    PS I was dictating this on my iPad with the baby sleeping sorry for the grammatical errors, I just hope this can save someone from going in to deep and actually losing money !!!!!!!

      • These creeps that prey on couples are real sleazeballs! They do it because they think couples are more vulnerable and open! I just don’t get how these people can become so brainwashed what is it exactly that they do them? My wife made the analog: it’s like if you go to a casino and you see all the flashing lights and all the pictures of people winning money on the wall, you throw logic out the door and you believe you can be next! Then when these con men get duped by there mentor ( put money into this scam business) they feel like they need to get it back! similar to when you go to the casino and you put $100 in to slot machine! You then continue to play because you tell yourself “I need to earn back the hundred I lost” and then you walk out of the casino losing $1000 ! Bottom line is these predatory ConMan prey on your fears and emotions so stay far far away!

      • I asked myself the same question as to how those recruiters do what they do and the way they do it and why people fall for it.

        1 .I think the recruiter will do whatever he was taught / trained to do. Remember, at one point he was also recruited in the same way as he’s trying to recruit you. That’s his reality and that’s what he has been taught that WORKS and what should be done to new comers. Afterall, that’s part of the “mentorship” they receive: how to recruit new members

        2. As for those who fall for it. Since those recruiters frequent Starbucks a lot, I had the chance to be a passive listener to how the recruiters recruit people.
        They ask the right questions to awaken people’s dreams and hope. When the emotions are high, logic is thrown out the window and people are hooked. I would have fallen for them had I not experienced the hardship of life and the importance of hard work, continuous education and self improvement.

        Couples may fall easily because there is a higher probability that one of the couples will like the idea while the other may not. To avoid fights, sometimes the husband agrees to support the wife if she was sold the “dream” and vice versa, just to avoid breaking their marriage.

        For the young, once they take the initial bate, there’s a plethora of brainwashing “tools and tapes” that will keep them on the hook and always pumped up with the hope that “they will make it eventually”.

        There’s so much material out there about their practices, I only wish they are honest and upfront.

  18. I got approached by Amway’s recruiter last week and got lured the same way. Saying how successful his mentor and some of his team members are. Asking if I want to be successful like them too, and I was like you, clueless and on board when they talk about money and retired young. I got a chance to go to one of their seminar and the next day I made up my mind that this kind of business was not for me.

    The recruiter is actually a really nice guy and I want to end it on a good note. So I contacted him. WORSE DECISION EVER!!! He connected me with his other “successful” team member to convinced me. That guy was a DEFENSIVE bitch (pardon my language). He lectured me why I was wrong in everything, and I quote “You are such a closed minded person. “Blank” (the recruiter’s name) was mistaken when he thought he see something in you. Our team don’t need you. We have tons of potential people lining up to join our team. We have over 300 members in our team all across the U.S., we don’t need you. Let’s see in 5, 10, 15 years what you’re going to be. We have all these celebrities and President Trump who supports us, and you are so closed minded you shouldn’t be living in America…”

    The only thing I said was I don’t want to join the business and I got berated with insults. What a life’s lesson. Lucky I got out of there before I regret it for the rest of my life. So my advice, RUN AWAY!! RUN AWAY!! AND NEVER LOOK BACK!!!

    • Thanks for sharing. It is indeed their attitude that turns people off. They are not upfront, they think they are better than others and they belittle those who have no interest after they learn about the nature of the MLM business.

  19. First off, I would like to thank this blog and all the similar told stories. Here is my story about being in a relationship with someone involved with World Wide Dream Builders, WWDB, and soon to be Amway. Sorry for the length:
    My girlfriend of two and a half years got involved with WWDB a little over four months ago. She was approached at her place of work by a woman that showed much interest in her and wanted to meet up later that week at Starbucks to talk further. Well, the first couple times they met, they would meet for hours and my girlfriend would be so excited because this woman showed so much interest in her, gave her books to read and reflect on, and gave her hope. A little side note, my girlfriend is in her early twenties, has multiple sources of income, and lives paycheck to paycheck. I would not say she is a weak-minded, naïve, or vulnerable individual. I would say she is someone that jumped on an opportunity that sounded wonderful without doing her research.

    Anyways, at the beginning, my gf would meet several times a week with at first called her “mentor” and they would talk about dreams, goal setting, and overall life. When I asked, she was very vague, like it was top secret, which made me wonder at first, but didn’t think anything of it because I was happy she was happy. Well, weeks passed and her mentor introduced her to the others in the group, about 20 or so, and they all met up at a local restaurant. All my gf could say was she has never been around such “fun, open-minded, humble” people all at once, where she felt like she could be herself. At this point, she was involved for about a month, we still had communication, but she would disappear for hours without telling me where she was at or who she was with, would never text me when around them, and would never allow me to go along with her to meet these “amazing people.” I couldn’t understand why I wasn’t able to be around them, she made it sound so positive and fun, who wouldn’t want to go?

    Keep in mind, she got involved at the beginning of August this year. After the first month went by with so little information, September 1st hit, and that’s when everything hit the fan. All of a sudden, she was saying we need to take a two week break, with no communication, so she could grow and break the emotional attachment we had together. Upset and confused, I agreed. Prior to these two months, we were inseparable, happy, in love and looking forward to our future. To say she caught me off guard is an understatement. A two-week break turned into her saying we need a month a part with no communication or seeing each other. I agreed and respected her wishes and a month went by and she said she needs two-three months more months of space or until I finish college (which is in 8 Months-August 2017). After some more time passed and I demanded to meet for lunch and stop communicating through the phone, it was like talking to someone I didn’t know. She was laughing off everything I was saying, saying meeting with me was a waste of time, saying we are over and there is no us, saying I’m emotional and to not talk to her until my head is clear? UHM! I am emotional because the love of my life wants nothing to do with me for no apparent reason. The love of my life has no explanation for why she is treating me this way besides “I will do whatever my up lines and mentors tell me to do.”

    Some things she would say and actions she would do should help paint the picture: She has completely cut off all ties with family, friends, me, or anything that has a tie to her past, also known as “distractions that are hindering her from reaching her goals.” Everything she does and everyone she hangs out with is involved with Amway or WWDB because “she only keeps positive associations and takes advice from people that have made it and that the multimillionaires and her up lines believe in her.” She has blocked my phone number and several family members, making it near impossible to get a hold of her. She says her mentors will not let her “launch her business” until she is financially stable. Her mentors have helped her rearrange her resume and land a new job, which makes a steady amount of income. She says she will be “financially free” by the time she is 25. She is constantly listening to motivational videos and podcasts. She is always listening to people that “have made it” like Greg Duncan. She said she only associates herself with “winners and risk takers.” At one point, her up-line told her that if I was serious about being involved with WWDB, I would quit college, keep in mind I am a semester away from graduation. That is crazy! I told her absolutely not. She is very skeptical about who she spends her time with. She attended FED in Oregon this past October and multiple seminars locally. She goes out all hours of the night to places all around time. She spends a lot of time at bars and night clubs until 4 or 5 a.m., which is unusual. She is always looking up multimillion dollar homes and cars and putting them on her dream board. She skipped her brother’s wedding last month because it was too much of a distraction and she needed to stay in her town. I also heard that they do not support gay relationships, is this true? Considering we are two women in love? My mind is all over the place. There is much more to this, but this should be enough information to get some answers.

    • Continued:
      At first I did not believe it when people said pyramid scheme, cult, scam or any of those negative slurs because I wanted to believe in her and her success. I tried to support her. It wasn’t until recently I started doing my research and everything started to make sense and realized other people have similar if not the same story. I have read a short few success stories with Amway, but they definitely outweigh the sad stories I have come across. I love this girl with all of my heart, she is the love of my life, and I planned on spending the rest of my life with her. Although I realize there is no convincing her because she is so heavily influenced and involved, does anyone have any advice or anything to add? Is this normal behavior? How long does it usually take people to realize that nothing is worth choosing your family, friends or significant other over? I am a person who values relationships, so I absolutely can’t wrap my head around all this. This has been an emotional roller coaster for me the past couple of months. My heart is broken for her and it is all I can think about. It is near to my heart because I want to see the best in her and for her. I do not want to see her learn the hard way, lose money, or lose confidence or self-esteem. I know this is something she has to figure out on her own because she absolutely doesn’t listen to anyone that isn’t involved or “has made it.” I am close to letting go completely and walking away. But, after all this, if there is any hope that I can make things work with her, I will work it out. I hope whoever else that is going through what I am going through gets the answers they need. I wish everyone well and a happy new year!

  20. Just to add my 2 cents to this discussion. I was involved with Amway and more specifically World Wide Dream Builders for just over 2 years. I had just came out of the army and was directionless about the next steps I wanted to take with my life.Never before having any ideas about owning my own business I met a police officer and his wife at my workplace who prospected me and took me through the education process as it was outlined in the article. They were great people and I truly believe they think they are helping people in the best way they know how. But unfortunately after that 2 years of working the system and prospecting between 25-50 people a month I saw little success. And what hurt me the most was when I bought into this system I pushed all those people closest to me away. As one of the leaders Brad Duncan continually teaches to snip out people in your life who don’t agree with what you are doing. This caused me to remove lifetime friends and even my own family from my life. As well the continual upline pressure to continually purchase products from yourself to match PV caused me to spend over $19,000 on products I would never use normally and drove me into debt that I am still working my way out of. Eventually I became disillusioned with the lack of results comparative to the amount of work I was putting into the system. and took a step back from the tapes, functions and association of people who were in the business. This allowed me to start to look at the practices and routines of the organization I was working in from a different perspective and to question why I wanted to continue working a system that had made my life miserable since being introduced to it. The one positive I will say for Amway is it really builds the idea of business ownership in individuals who may never consider it for themselves before that. After that break I decided to start several internet businesses on my own away from Amway and have been seeing fantastic things start to return to my personal relationships,finances and outlook on life.

    For these people who are saying that Amway is a family and that your upline really cares for you. I challenge you to stop accumulating PV, attending functions and prospecting people for 3 months. Then see how many times your upline or crossline will reach out to see how you are doing without bringing up getting started in the business again or touching base to keep you from dropping out of their organization. In my case my upline who I considered to by my friend of 2 years never called me once after I stopped. Implying that your value as a person is decreased to them once you stop building the system because you are shamed with the title of quitter or dreamstealer.

    Keep up the good work with this blog people need to have someone telling them that this type of system is not made for everyone.

    for some additional internet business ideas look up the Amazon FBA program or Affiliate Marketing. These are much better ways to use the internet for a business then the Amway model.

    Best Regards,


    • Thank you Andrew for your honest feedback. You went through the experience and came back to share objectively what has perspired. All the research on the internet lean towards a similar experience to yours. When the *dreamers* wake up, it would be too late and lots of debts to pay out and friends to re-acquire.

  21. I’m just curious whether you get paid to write the articles to attack Amway/WWDB but you don’t need to answer that because you would probably say No. It really is interesting how you spend so much time dwelling on this and trying to convince others to join your misery. I would have done something better with my life than writing a blog expressing my bitterness feeling towards Amway or WWDB.

    • Donald. You guessed right: I was not paid, instead they robbed me of my time and eagerness by being shady and dishonest and not upfront.

      I would love to hear something else from WWDB / Amway defenders. Something like: yes, you are right. We approach unsuspecting people and lie to them in order to lure them into something without being upfront and personal about the type of business.

  22. I read this blog and it makes me sad. I didn’t want to comment to be honest but I think the problem isn’t with Amway or WWDB the problem is with the people..on both sides. All I see is everyone saying that “I’m right and you’re wrong” but lets see if we can look at things objectively shall we.

    I am very familiar with the “Amway Opportunity” I am also a part of WWDB; however I am not a robot; I have a mind of my own. I have First Degree in Computer Science as far as my educational credentials are concerned.

    First of all, let us not confuse Amway with WWDB as the are two different things. Amway just provides a business model that can be leveraged to earn extra income; Amway CANNOT and WILL NOT teach financial Independence. What they provide is a System and you leverage that system to earn. WWDB teaches how to leverage the system and earn efficiently(think business school). All business uses systems, and systems that work, makes money for that business. Amway makes ALOT of money and doesn’t owe a dime; very few companies can say that (Now I know you might just have thought “Of course they do! The scam people out of their hard earned money!”, but read on…). Amway is NOT a scam if it was they wouldn’t have A+ ratings with the Better Business Bureau; Their CEO could not be the head of chamber of commerce and They’d all be in jail if it was a scam.

    Amway left a bad taste in a lot of peoples mouth in the past and thats why IBOs usually try to avoid dropping it on the “first date” or two. Mentorship is whats available, but only if you want it, only if you are willing to work for it.

    World Wide Group is an organization created by Ron Puryear and His wife back in the days as he realized that people need to educated on how to “build the business”. Very few people in the world, let alone america can claim to have impacted as many life that he did. I respect the man and the things he has accomplished and WWDB has dome so much for me and my fiancee and many friends that I have made so I can’t agree with a lot of the bad experiences that I have seen.

    I am well aware that there are some bad people that gives the association the bad name though. These are usually guy who got in recently and are either not being coached properly or not taking advice from their mentors. As far as I know we are to be respectful of other people’s opinions; If someone doesn’t want in, respect that, wish them well and leave them alone (It’s a free country after all). This business is for those who want it. I am sorry that you guys had to experience what you did and WWDB is not perfect we are improving everyday.

    I am not making any money yet but thats my motivation I wanted the association and mastermind of positive thinkers and all I can say is I am not disappointed at all. WWDB is everything and more in keeping my mind of this nightmare of a 3rd world country I live in. Sadly a lot of us are motivated by money when I comes on to working I am no exception. If the stop paying me at my Software development job I’d quit in a heart beat but with WWDB I started thikning about how I can help others, how I can probably contribute to making the world a better place. Yes I could probably do it without them but before they came alone I only thought about me and my family.

    Anyone who choose to cut off friends and family and say “my mentor said to do it” is just finding excuses. If my mentor told me to jump off a cliff should I do it? I’d encourage people to use their brain and not allow people to tell you what you can and cannot do or you’ll never be truly free. Mentorship is advice not commands. Listen and try to make sense of whats being taught. If you can make sense ASK QUESTIONS. I don’t blame the OP for being skeptical of the recruiters who where secretive with how the explain (although I can see where there were some misunderstandings i.e. they tried explain to him but he didn’t get it)

    I’ve seen alot of people who said the were in for like 1-2 years max here and you know why? Because those who are in 3+ years are making it and don’t have time to waste on stuff like this (so you know I’m not 3+ years in lol). All the guys I know who killing it are 2+ years in and when I say know I’m talking personally.

    Finally, life is HARD. Inside MLM, outside MLM only the people with the right mindset and work attitude make it.

    Amway is not the problem; WWDB is not the problem; its the people who make it or break it….just like any other thing you can think of under the sun…work, school, church, etc.

  23. Just wanted to take some time to discuss some of the points that you made in your previous post. Amway might not be classified as an Illegal pyramid scheme but unfortunately the system is not designed for everyone to become a founders crown or diamond. If hard work and sticking with it long enough were all that it took to achieve these levels of income then why is it that only a few diamonds are broken every couple of years out of all the thousands of distributors in North America? And in the last 20 years you can count the number of Crowns on one hand! People will spend 15+ years in the system and only be at the platinum or Ruby level with a consistent work habit of talking to new people and attempting to grow their business. Like you said you knew people who were crushing it at year 2+ But on the flipside I also know people stuck on the same pin level at year 10 frustrated and doing anything to make it to the next level.

    And as for you backing up the Amway corporation with the BBB rating I would advise you to take a look at the link I’ve posted below. To sum up the BBB was accused of running a pay-to-play rating system where companies that paid a certain amount were grant an A+ rating.

    The problem with WWDB is not the association or the positive mindset that these type of events and mentorship can bring to people. These in fact are fantastic things to have and one of the parts I really enjoyed the most from the experience. But what I DO have an issue with is WWDB selling people on the idea of just hanging on for another day and clinging onto hope instead of honestly evaluating if the time and money being put in is worth what they are getting out of it after a certain point. Yes traditional businesses go into debt and will not be profitable every year. But if a business was constantly losing more money in expenses then it was earning it would close up shop, As that is not a sustainable business model.

    As well those people who do go onto cut off friends and family are not just weak minded sheeple as you implied in your previous post. But are taught with all these seminars and meetings that in order to be truly successful in the “2-5 Year retirement plan” they must get away from negative people all together and pay the price to be successful. Being only exposed to the same people and teachings who discourage others from reaching out to outside sources(Ex the internet is only full of negative people, friends who might be skeptical of WWDB) is one of the staples of a brainwashing environment as it suppresses critical thought process and ideas. And being brainwashed or not does not simply come down to a matter of choice. It is a gradual process of scheduled meetings and functions and business trips that see’s people remaining in the system for years and years being told that next year they will attract the right people to them and be able to retire or pay off that mounting debt.

    Yes life is hard but you do NOT need the Amway business model or WWDB to be successful in it. Success is very achievable outside of it but most IBO’s will never consider the option that a better way exists outside of “the system”.

  24. Hi there,
    I thoroughly enjoyed your article, and it hits so close to home. Currently my husband has been involved with Amway for over two years. We have zero downlines, and spent thousands of dollars and it has caused tension in our marriage. He thinks it will solve all of our financial problems. I don’t know how I can make him see that it just doesn’t work. He thinks that I am uneducated in the business world.

    I FEEL BAD FOR YOU. I wish I can help you. According to you this is wrong. I encourage you to also GOOGLED good and positive feed back too. Obviously most of what you have is negativity. YOU FIND WHAT YOU LOOK FOR. FOR EXP. my CHURCH. I greatly believe in what I believe, but yeah there is also so many bad, negative, and horrible things in the internet saying the opposite. Come on, You work so much that I bet you don’t have the time to do lots of right research and actually apply good things in your life.. The highest point of ignorance is rejecting something you don’t know nothing about. Sorry to say that you dream based on what you budget lets you. Also to all the people saying it takes years to get to different levels. Please understand that you get there YES BASED in your hard work for Example: ( when you were a baby and started to walk did you ever tough of giving up because it didn’t work or walked the first time you tried and because it hurt you gave up……No you didn’t other wise you wouldn’t be walking now) others walk faster then others. The Fear to fall. Anyway …. If it was a scheme we would be forcing people to join, but we don’t! The people chose them selves. There is just so many things out there. The purpose is to master you, to find things you could do you didn’t think you can do. Believe that the impossible is always possible. I personality love helping people and my medical field just wasn’t covering all can to help others. Many things I dreamed to do when I was a kind to become successful I already did. Sadly, It didn’t help much. Open your heart/ brains. Sadly the incompetent people will always want to see the negative because they are just lazy to do the hard work. ( hard work is not by recruiting others!, BUT by developing yourself in creating new habits of reading books etc.. The best investment you can do in life is to INVEST IN YOURSELF!!!. People with professions thing they meet success. Success is having a loving wife/husband, family, friends, health, religious and financially ok. They spent so much time working in someone else is dream. I am glad to say that there is more to this, I am a now a business owner my self and has help me so much. Appreciate things I have in life and also trash out bad habits I had (like drugs, bad significant other, and bad friendships) not because they told me to, but because you start to realize you morals an values by studying your past life and wrong choices. I did wish I would off known this WWDB way before because I would have made better decisions wouldn’t had got hurt so much like it did. God bless everyone and good luck with your negativity. Money doesn’t buy happiness. What we do is a way of life, this is not a get rich quick thing!

    • Hi Yulie,

      Based on your poor command of the English language and your senseless arguments, you really have little ground to stand on. Besides, the attacks that you have thrown in the author’s direction have no basis and in fact, far as I know, he’s very well-traveled, well-read and independently earns his own income based on royalties for proprietary work. If what you are doing makes you happy then continue doing it; someone’s exposé of their perception of your choices should therefore have no bearing on your contentment…unless, that is, you deep down feel subtly misguided.

    • Hello giant log in your EYE, be quiet Judas! You are the reason and the problem in the church, be careful . . . PRIDE COME BEFORE THE FALL!

  26. This web is also created to make money from our comments… I know its poor. I wasn’t going to waste to much time, other wise I would off had gone through it and etc. I did not attack anyone it is just my opinion. If the shoe fits. Good luck to everyone in general. I mean no harm and I want the best for everyone.

    • Once again, pride comes before the fall and that is guaranteed or your money back. Don’t attack those who do not agree with you, who the heck are you?

  27. I was in a cult once.

    I know this is random, but it fascinates me how WWDB uses the exact same tactics as the LDS (Mormon) Church- which is how I recognized the cult-like behavior! Just like a missionary in a white shirt and tie gave me vague statements, telling me only easy-to-swallow doctrine (“milk before meat” is the Mormon phrase), a WWDB member in a white shirt and tie hesitated to give me the full “doctrine” until later on. Just like the Church tells you, I was told that skepticism is a bad quality and was essentially taught “faith.” Just like the Church tells you not to look online because people post lies and to only look through approved sources, WWDB told me to only look at WWDB-approved sources for reviews! Just like I was drawn in by the friendly like-minded social scene of the Church that gave me warm, fuzzy feelings, being with the like-minded people of WWDB gave me those friendly, warm, comfortable feelings. Just like I was shamed for having doubt and then shunned and disowned by my Mormon “friends” that I had been close to my whole life, just because I was “deceived by the brainwashed ‘World’/devil (a.k.a realized I was in a cult), I hear of people getting disowned by WWDB friends for leaving and they also are isolated from family/friends- though my friends at WWDB seem genuine and I haven’t had any negative social interactions (quite the opposite- I’ve only met stunningly good people. I can’t relate to these posts of “evil people” and “bad vibes.” I’ve only felt peace and good vibes- kind of like the “Spirit” that I felt in the Church!). In fact- just like how in the Church I believe the members aren’t deceivers, just deceived, I think the person teaching me is innocently brainwashed. Just like you hear “you can’t judge the church by it’s members,” you hear people here saying you can’t judge WWDB by a few bad eggs! Now I hear someone saying “Pride comes before the fall-” the exact same phrase they use in the LDS Church for non-believers, word-for-word! The irony!

    Having been in a cult, I am very suspicious when I see these tactics. I’m staying only for the experience and to give my friends (the two WWDB members I trust) some practice in their leadership/social skills by “mentoring” me, while the books and tapes they give me are teaching me valuable principles and making me a better person. I feel I have nothing to lose and only things to gain if I don’t officially join and just enjoy these temporary benefits/learning materials/networking. Plus- my buddies and I have so much fun after meetings, just goofing off and being unprofessional, secretly talking about our wild younger years while our mentor isn’t listening 😉 We’re really close. I’m just gonna be honest with them about what I really think and we’ll probably pair off away from Amway and do our own thing/build our own start-up together!

    Oh- and I forgot to mention the manipulative flattery. Oh, well! It already built my confidence whether it was genuine or not! lol! Overall, I’d have to say the opposite of the writer and say I’ve had an overwhelmingly positive experience and met great human beings that built up my moral character and life and keep me on the right path. Either the members here in Utah just have higher moral systems because of their religion- or I’m just one of the lucky ones, I guess!

  28. Also… these stories sound eerily similar to mine. Just like a previous story posted on this site, I go into a room full of well-dressed people and a guy is asked to hold up his energy drink (obvious promotion). The man says it would be worth shoveling dung for a couple years to be successful, as posted in another story here. I wonder if this man in said story also happened to be a fast-talking guy flown in from Seattle…? Hmm? Did he currently have a daughter in Hawaii? Then our stories would be the same.

  29. Recently I overheard a conversation about how to retire early instead of working for someone else. I got involved in conversation and the guy doing all the talking told me his son was involved and was looking form people to train to help manage all the extraordinary growth within a large company. I asked who the company was and rattled around in circles for a few minutes and said his son was who could explain it. An hour later I had coffee with his son. He assured me that the company provides individuals with management and business training that was so wonderful that it is essentially equal to going to university for 5 years. Nice thing is, the mentoring and training from wonderful experts doesnt just provide you an education like a university student, but you get to set up a distribution company in the process which can be so profitable that some people retire after 5 years and the residual income goes on forever, like a pension. He told me the minimal costs to join, to attend training meetings, etc is all tax deductable and most people set aside a space in their home as an office and deduct that cost every year as a tax write off. And people involved are buying for themselves and distributing to others all the things you wood normally buy anyway. He said it is like getting a rebate in cash at the end of each day you go shopping. I was sitting back listening and acting naive. I said you can only claim expenses against business income if that business expects to make profit, in other words you cannot create a little business that makes $1000 a year profit and then try to claim $5000 in expenses against it with the intent of slopping that expense against other earned income as a “business loss” I said I had been in business for years as a manager, owner, consultant, technician, etc. IN other words I have been around the block a few times on most issues we were discussing. Seen one, seen them all. He said the company was World Wide Group LLC from the States. I said this system only works for the guy at the top, not the guy the bottom. He said “oh no, everyone gets their cut.” And we would just really be distributors for hundreds of different well know large corporations. I said OK, lets say I order something for $100 and all it to my neighbour for $120. Shipping was free. Then the company eventually pays me $5 for selling their product for them. So I made $25. He excitedly agreed and started rambling again about how great this is. Then I said ” if you sign me up, then you get $5 or whatever on that $100 item too. He agreed. And the guy above him? Yep he would get a little too. Finally I said “think it thru. If I have 15 people above me in my chain, even at a few dollars compensation to each of them, plus my original $25, somewhere, somehow that original $100 item has now shrunk by about 50% so that the manufacturer must be willing to sell his product at half price. The marketing organization sure isnt doing the manufacturers any favours. Why would manufacturer want to do all that screwing around and lose $50 in the process. The smile on his face gradually faded, he thought for a minute. Then shrugged and said he never thought of it like that but it must work cause lots of people are in the program. I said it does work, but there is a reason the guys at the top get rich, the guys at the bottom didn’t, and the manufacturer is willing to stay involved. He sat waiting. I said the guy at the very bottom makes a little profit when he delivers his product to his neighbour. So he wants to repeat and make another little profit. And everyone between the bottom and the top make a very small cut. The more people you have signed up, the more very small cuts add up so the guys near the top make the money just from volume. And the cuts to everyone between top and bottom are so small that the manaufacturer is selling his product for almost the same amount he normally would and he is willing to forego that little reduction in per item income to make it back on volumn. He was lookinf confused. I said that their are ponzi scams, there are pyramid scams, there are variiations of those scams and other scams. They all work the same way. And the fees paid to join, etc are part of the money filtering back to people upline to keep them pushing for new recruits. And I told him there is no way that a few videos to watch, a few mentors to help, and a few books to read will, in a short time, give me an education just as valuable as a university business degree. He argued that and said the training is considered to be outstanding. I asked if you get a certificate or anything when you are done training that you could add to a resume for later. He said no. I said that any prospective employer later would bust out laughing if you handed him a certificate (like the ones they give McDonald’s employees who have attended Hamburglar University) that says you are now a trained Business Manager. I kept pretending I was skeptical BUT possibly interested. I said you know this sounds like Amway. He said the company is not called Amway, they are called World Wide Group. I left it that day that I would get back to him. I talked to someone in law enforcement in another location and he knew about this organization and he confirmed that basically they are either strongly affiliated with Amway or had based themselves on Amway’s business model. And it is the old story. Convince someone they can get rich and sign him up and collect some fees and encourage him with a little training and seminars where the guy at the top stands up and shows pictures of his private island and mansions, and tells audience they can do that too. Then hopefully for every 10 signed up, 1 or 2 actually stick it out and dont get rich but they do make enough to keep them involved and motivated to chase the dream. The other 8 drop out. So the fact a few get rich and some others make enough to keep them believing is one thing. But what about the hundreds and thousands who bought the idea, invested a little money, put all their time and effort in, drove their friends and themselves half nuts, and finally realized that the dream was just a dream. I phoned the guy back after a few days and said that all my original suspicions were confirmed and that I had legal and law connections on both sides of the border that told me the same thing. The organization is designed to create money flow to the top of the pile, to be just a whisker on the legal side of the line to avoid prosecution, and the training he talked about being as good as a university degree is really a carefully planned approach to train people how to recruit other people and seperate them from some time and money. He said he appreciated my feedback and then ended by saying he was sorry that I couldn’t see the big picture and had bought into all the propaganda put out there by other companies jealous of his companies success. I said his company is acknowledge to be connected with Amway since the 70s as their official trainers on how to run multi marketing like Amway. He didn’t seem to know about the Amway connection so I told him to look it up. He said I shouldn’t be so negative and so far he had been succesful after being involved for only a year. I asked if he still had a day job and he said he did but was planning on dropping it once this other program got profitable enough. I asked how much the program was paying him. He said he averaged almost $100 a month in the first year. So I guess about 8 more years, if he is one of the few who succeed, and if he can double his program income every year, and he will be up to point he could drop his day job. But that is a very tall order. Another way of saying unachievable dream,. I hope this whole long article opens some eyes before any money changes hands as a fee to come work for a great organization. Right. Every great organization, after they interview you and decide they would like to have you aboard, then asks you to pay ti be allowed to join. .

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